The City Wants to Pass its own Gun Laws

[Value Pack]

Ken Hammond, an off-duty officer from Ogden, north of Salt Lake City, jumped up from his seat at a restaurant after hearing gunfire and cornered the gunman, exchanging fire with him until other officers arrived, Burbank said.

“There is no question that his quick actions saved the lives of numerous other people,” the police chief said.

Police said it was not immediately clear who fired the shot that killed Talovic.

Talovic had a backpack full of ammunition, a shotgun and a .38-caliber pistol, police said. Investigators knew little about Talovic, except than he lived in Salt Lake City with his mother and was a Bosnian refugee, according to Reuters. He had four minor incidents with police when he was a juvenile, police said. He was enrolled in numerous city schools before withdrawing in 2004, the school district said.

Talovic drove to the Trolley Square shopping center — a century-old former trolley barn with winding hallways, brick floors and wrought-iron balconies, and immediately killed two people, followed by a third victim as he came through a door, Burbank said. Five other people were then shot in a gift shop, he said.

Four people who were wounded remained hospitalized Tuesday, two in critical condition, two in serious.

end of story

In Utah, all concealed carry, even those by police, have to have a concealed carry license issued by the State of Utah.

In this case, concealed carry, increased the risk of doing business in that Mall. If this officer had not had a licence for concealed carry, what might have been the outcome or finally tally of dead or wounded?

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Value Pack

Ken Hammond, an off-duty officer from Ogden, north of Salt Lake City, jumped up from his seat at a restaurant after hearing gunfire and cornered the gunman, exchanging fire with him until other officers arrived, Burbank said.

“There is no question that his quick actions saved the lives of numerous other people,” the police chief said.

Police said it was not immediately clear who fired the shot that killed Talovic.

Talovic had a backpack full of ammunition, a shotgun and a .38-caliber pistol, police said. Investigators knew little about Talovic, except than he lived in Salt Lake City with his mother and was a Bosnian refugee, according to Reuters. He had four minor incidents with police when he was a juvenile, police said. He was enrolled in numerous city schools before withdrawing in 2004, the school district said.

Talovic drove to the Trolley Square shopping center — a century-old former trolley barn with winding hallways, brick floors and wrought-iron balconies, and immediately killed two people, followed by a third victim as he came through a door, Burbank said. Five other people were then shot in a gift shop, he said.

Four people who were wounded remained hospitalized Tuesday, two in critical condition, two in serious.

end of story

In Utah, all concealed carry, even those by police, have to have a concealed carry license issued by the State of Utah.

In this case, concealed carry, increased the risk of doing business in that Mall. If this officer had not had a licence for concealed carry, what might have been the outcome or finally tally of dead or wounded?

Sorry, I don't know Utah state law! I just know that there is a big difference between an off-duty police officer and an average joe citizen with a concealed carry permit, at least there should be. From the first post I couldn't tell if you were for or against concealed carry.

PS. I think you mean that concealed carry lowered the risk in the mall.

[macdaddy]

The second post quoted is nothing more than a misinformed person relaying misinformation on to other people as facts.[/quote]


Isn't it amazing that when someone doesn't have the same philosophy as others, it comes out as being, Misinformed? and relying on misinformation. Nothing I said was factual, it was my belief and opnion on information posted for to make a point. I still believe what I posted and I don't think we need a bunch of armed people running around the city.

And as a busines owner I can put what ever the hell I want to on my windows. If I don't want you walking into my establishment with a gun that is my right!

Well then lets here how the only ones out there backing heat will be the "Bad" people. The last thing I want is for you to jump into my busines waving a gun.

(as I looked over this post I see nothing dealing with factual information. just my own opnion)and please if your stating fact please publish where you get your information. I would really be interested in reviewing the facts.

[lurker]

I'd rather be in a scene where one guy was "Going Postal" and 3 customers were "concealed carry" than in the same scene with only the psycho holding a gun.

Neither situation is good; but one is better than the other.

I've often imagined the terrorist's trying to hijack those airplanes IF the passengers were allowed to carry. My bet is that they wouldn't have seriously considered that stunt.

[Value Pack]

Nine Myths of Gun Control, Second Amendment Sisters, Inc.

Myth #9 "Citizens are too incompetent to use guns for protection"

Nationally good citizens use guns about seven to ten times as frequently as the police to repel crime and apprehend criminals and they do it with a better safety record than the police. [3] About 11% of police shootings kill an innocent person - about 2% of shootings by citizens kill an innocent person. The odds of a defensive gun user killing an innocent person are less than 1 in 26,000.[27] Citizens intervening in crime are less likely to be wounded than the police. ...

One-third of Americans live in the ... progressive states that have reformed laws to allow good citizens to readily protect themselves outside their homes. [26,27] In those states crime rates are lower for every category of crime indexed by the FBI Uniform Crime Reports. [11] Homicide, assault, and overall violent crime are each 40% lower, armed robbery is 50% lower, rape is 30% lower, and property crimes are 10% lower. [11] The reasonable reform of concealed weapon laws resulted in none of the mayhem prophesied by the anti-self-defense lobby. In fact, the data suggest that, providing they are in the hands of good citizens, more guns "on the street" offer a considerable benefit to society - saving lives, a deterrent to crime, and an adjunct to the concept of community policing. ...

Notwithstanding gun control extremists' unprophetic histrionics , the observed reality was that crime fell, in part, because vicious predators fear an unpredictable encounter with an armed citizen even more than they fear apprehension by police [34] or fear our timid and porous criminal justice system. ...

=======================================

Note that the evidence is backed up with footnotes on the link cited.

The footnotes are from the Federal Bureau of Investigation, US Department of Justice.

macdaddy: how about some support for your views other than your feelings.

Bubba: By Utah law, the off duty officer had to have a concealed carry license be he a postal worker, banker or police officer if he wanted to carry a concealed gun.

I really don't see much good coming out of this whole mess. How many innocent people will be killed by some well doer because he misreads a situation?

According to the evidence, 11 chances in 100 with the police and less than 2 chances in 100 with a citizen with a gun.

[Tee]

WOW!

Now that was a powerful post!!

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

....And as a busines owner I can put what ever the hell I want to on my windows. If I don't want you walking into my establishment with a gun that is my right!....

Yes, you can post your business however you like. As a potential patron I can choose to take my business elsewhere.

Originally Posted by macdaddy

....(as I looked over this post I see nothing dealing with factual information. just my own opnion)and please if your stating fact please publish where you get your information. I would really be interested in reviewing the facts.

I glad to see you have an interest in reviewing facts. Most folks simply ignore facts because they’re as exciting to read as a tech manual. Here’s a few links to get started with. Some have addition links to expand your reading enjoyment.

More Guns, Less Crime - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Carrying concealed weapon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GunCite-Who is Gary Kleck?

Guns and Self-Defense by Gary Kleck, Ph.D.

Gary Kleck Study Summary

John Lott's website

[wordsmythe]

Patriot Riders

Originally Posted by Highwayman

Be careful about Wikipedia. There was a stink awhile back because it’s open for entries from just about anyone that wants to add stuff. Someone had found a bunch of stuff about him that wasn’t true and it took months to get it cleaned up.

Be careful of what you read on the net.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by wordsmythe

....Be careful of what you read on the net.

True Wordy, but I also backed up the Wikipedia with other sources expanding on the Wikipedia information.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

Isn't it amazing that when someone doesn't have the same philosophy as others, it comes out as being, Misinformed? and relying on misinformation. Nothing I said was factual, it was my belief and opnion on information posted for to make a point. I still believe what I posted and I don't think we need a bunch of armed people running around the city.

And as a busines owner I can put what ever the hell I want to on my windows. If I don't want you walking into my establishment with a gun that is my right!

Well then lets here how the only ones out there backing heat will be the "Bad" people. The last thing I want is for you to jump into my busines waving a gun.

(as I looked over this post I see nothing dealing with factual information. just my own opnion)and please if your stating fact please publish where you get your information. I would really be interested in reviewing the facts.

When you post your "no gun" sign on your business, remember to post a "Criminal Safe Zone" sign right next to it. Your no gun sign will inform law abiding citizens that carry guns, that you don't want their business and I will abide by your wishes and not carry my gun into your business, however I also won't be doing business with your business. Your no gun sign will also inform criminals that it is safe for them to carry their gun in to rob you because they don't have to worry about anybody else inside that business carrying a gun. The criminal doesn't care if you have a no gun sign posted, he (or she) is going to carry their gun in there anyway.