Clueless; Lets talk Casino again.

[TexKan]

Yeah but there are a lot of bible thumpers that just believe it's a sin to do........... they don't need any stats or arguments. They will never, never,never vote yes.

[Made in the USA]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

Where were all the people that wanted to measure the "social costs" when they built the packing plants?

We were telling them that it would ruin our town and way of life, BUT nobody wanted to listen (as usual)!!

[Redhead 18]

“Why do you think this a smokey picture?”

A person by the name of Mr. Jeff Thorpe testified before the House Federal and State Affairs Committee on March 12, 2007 in Topeka, Ks.

This person made this statement to this Committee.

“This entertainment facility sales tax has no sunset and included a voter commitment to fund a $30 million Convention/Special Event Center that is currently in the development stages. FORD COUNTY voters reaffirmed their commitment to this entertainment and tourism development tax in November 2004, again without a sunset”.

Smokey Joe told me that we voted on stopping the Event Center in the Park. Must be Mr. Thorpe made a mistake on his speech. Mistakes happen all of the time. That’s how rumors get started.

Again Mr. Thorpe,

“With a capitalized investment between $55-70 Million to complete the casino, and over $30 million in local sales tax for development of a Convention/Special Event Center, Dodge City will add approximately 300 new jobs with estimated annual payroll of nearly $8 Million”

Smokey Joe went looking, another statement from Mr. Thorpe in the Dodge City Globe. At this point, it’s estimated that the Casino will employ 670 people with a gross payroll of $18 million. Well the Globe makes mistakes all of the time. 370 more jobs and $10 Million increase in payroll before we turn a shovel of dirt. Which figure do we look at to be truthful? Smoke screen is getting hazy. Help I can’t see.

Again Mr. Thorpe.

“Dodge City has public/private assets in place to be a significant partner in a destination Casino complex”. Does that mean Special Event (public) money will help the Casino? Did the Judge say we had to build it with a Casino?

“Dodge City is very experienced in the development and management of tourism service and companion industries”. Why did you ask for money from Dodge City/Ford County if you have so much expertise?

“Dodge City has brought together a primary team of City, County, Economic Development Corp., Community Facilities Advisory Board, Boot Hill Museum and Boot Hill Gaming representatives to facilitate the local control and success of an expanded gaming complex in our community”. The same people that have taken Dodge City down. You do it our way, Right or wrong, you still do it our way. Way to many failure with “Why Not Dodge Money”.

[Mike B.]

Originally Posted by Bubba

You may consider your "costs" refuted.

Your "supposed" costs are more accurately defined as myths. Misinformation, if you will, from the NCALG, to try to scare people into thinking that the gambling industry is bad. When, in fact, that a number of government studies show the opposite to be true. None of your "supposed" costs have ever been proven by independent government studies.

Bubba,

Are you serious? You really believe that there will be no cost?

Maybe you should have a visit with Mr. Thorp.

“When we've looked across the country, there's been a number of studies that have been done, You don't find in a community such as ours a demonstrated change that is significant in crime or bankruptcies or domestic issues.”
"There was an increase, but it was not significant…” –Jeff Thorp, President of Boot Hill Gaming.

My question to Mr. Thorp is...What would be significant?

For arguements sake, let’s say just one person in our community, just one, became addicted, filed bankruptcy, their marriage fell apart, and then that one person committed suicide. Was that one life important?

Again, let me quote Jeff Thorp. "There was an increase, but it was not significant…”

Ford County, answer this question: Is the life of your spouse, your children grandchildren or best friend significant? Jeff Thorp and Boot Hill Gaming say they’re not!

[Mike B.]

Originally Posted by Mike B.

Gambling: What the experts are saying!

In 2006, Frank Fahrenkopf was President and CEO for the American Gaming Association, and thus stood as the leading national spokesman for commercial casinos.
But would Fahrenkopf want one of his products in his own home town? Here’s his comment:
"People have the right to go to the ballot box and determine what they want the quality of life to be in their own area. Now if someone were to come along and tell me that they were going to put a casino in McLean, Virginia, where I live, I would probably work very, very hard against it. I just don’t -- what’s the old saying, ‘NIMBY, not in my back yard?’ Now I may be in favor of gaming, but I just don’t want it located in a particular area." AGA CEO Frank Fahrenkopf in Cleveland, Ohio, Oct. 24, 2006

Mr. Fahrenkopf knows that gambling…

Lowers quality of life, Causes addiction,
Contributes to divorce, Increases crime,
Cannibalizes jobs, Increases bankruptcy,
Corrupts politics, Damages the economy,
Increases suicides.
If Frank would not want these in his home town, why
would we?

Bubba,

I understand you not liking my statement in red. OK, let's take it out! Now why did Mr. Fahrenkopf make the statement? I believe it would be fair to say that he doesn't want gambling in his own home town because he understands that gambling lowers the quality of life.

Now the interpretation of "quality of life" may vary according to a persons social, moral, economic and other personal views, and I just happen to agree with Mr. Fahrenkopf. I don't want to see gambling in my community either.

You have every right to disagree and I support your right to do so.

I think you can take a deep breath and relax. As I stated before, I believe the expanded legalized gambling question will pass with voter approval. I even think the margin may surprise alot of people. I predict 3-1.

I still say there will be a cost. How much? I'm not sure. You can and will most likely disagree with me, that's fine. I don't have a problem with people who disagree with me, but it does worry me abit when only one side of any issue is addressed and the opposite side is ignored.

[hoarsewhisperer]

Originally Posted by Mike B.

Bubba,

Are you serious? You really believe that there will be no cost?

Maybe you should have a visit with Mr. Thorp.

“When we've looked across the country, there's been a number of studies that have been done, You don't find in a community such as ours a demonstrated change that is significant in crime or bankruptcies or domestic issues.”
"There was an increase, but it was not significant…” –Jeff Thorp, President of Boot Hill Gaming.

My question to Mr. Thorp is...What would be significant?

For arguements sake, let’s say just one person in our community, just one, became addicted, filed bankruptcy, their marriage fell apart, and then that one person committed suicide. Was that one life important?

Again, let me quote Jeff Thorp. "There was an increase, but it was not significant…”

Ford County, answer this question: Is the life of your spouse, your children grandchildren or best friend significant? Jeff Thorp and Boot Hill Gaming say they’re not!

With all due respect....Where do "we" draw the line on personal responsibility? All endeavors include a certain amount of risk.

Is the Golden Gate Bridge responsible for the over 1200 suicides since it's being built?

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Mike B.

Bubba,

I understand you not liking my statement in red. OK, let's take it out! Now why did Mr. Fahrenkopf make the statement? I believe it would be fair to say that he doesn't want gambling in his own home town because he understands that gambling lowers the quality of life.

Now the interpretation of "quality of life" may vary according to a persons social, moral, economic and other personal views, and I just happen to agree with Mr. Fahrenkopf. I don't want to see gambling in my community either.

You have every right to disagree and I support your right to do so.

I think you can take a deep breath and relax. As I stated before, I believe the expanded legalized gambling question will pass with voter approval. I even think the margin may surprise alot of people. I predict 3-1.

I still say there will be a cost. How much? I'm not sure. You can and will most likely disagree with me, that's fine. I don't have a problem with people who disagree with me, but it does worry me abit when only one side of any issue is addressed and the opposite side is ignored.

It's not about liking or not liking the statements in red, I have show in previous posts where what you posted was completely false. You can say that there will be a cost all you want, the fact is you can't prove there is a cost with any facts. In fact, you will find that independent studies have found the opposite of most of your claims.

How can you say your side is ignored, and that it worries you? You sent a letter to the editor that was published in the Globe, and then a few days later your letter was shown to be full of inaccuracies by the letter that was published that was pretty obvious somebody spent some time doing research to refute your claims. Then you post a lot of the same misinformation on this board that after a few hours of searching through the internet, I have been able to show that most of what you posted was false.

Now why did Mr. Fahrenkopf make the statement? I can't tell you. But I can tell you that after searching through the internet for several hours, the only place I could find any reference to the quote you posted was on the NCALG website and nowhere else. Could it be that the NCALG took his statement out of context to suit their needs? I don't know, but it does seem odd to me that I could only find it there and no place else.

[K C Muffin]

I, like Mike B, would just urge you to take a look at both sides. Maybe you'll decide that it's worth the negatives. They are there. I can see them up here. Would that be a detriment to Dodge? Well, that's what the argument is about. But before you call "bullsh!t" on his statements, at least think about it. I agree. Gambling in Dodge City will happen. Will it lower the moral values? Probably not. Will it bring in the money you seem to think it will? Probably not. It will bring in some, but remember, the promoters are paid to paint a rosey picture. Some of their figures have to be inflated. Just sit back, relax and take an honest look at the picture. Chances are, you'll agree with Bubba - that there are no more social costs than the packing plants have already brought. But, then again, you might decide to change your mind.

[Mike B.]

K C Muffin,

Well said!!

I may be opposed to gambling, but believe me I looked at both sides. I have seen friends and loved ones lose almost everything because of it. And I'd hate to see others live in that hell! And it is hell for them!

I do not, and never will, make personal attacks upon a person because they have different views than me. I will listen with an open mind, and make sound dicisions based on good information.



Hoarswhisperer,

I get your point! It is a good one!

Personal responsibility is of utmost importance! Any addicted person (wheather it be alcohol, drugs, sex, or gambling) is ill. It's not a crime, in my book, to be ill. But to make a choice to stay ill or get well, is to me, where personal responsibility comes into play!

[K C Muffin]

Mike, keep in mind that you can't legislate morality. You also can't legislate good judgement. I know it's hard to watch loved ones fall into the pit we lovingly call addictive gambling, but just because one person has the disease, we can't make everyone stay away. They can go to Kansas City or Cripple Creek or Vegas or Atlantic City - but who gains? It won't affect me one way or other if Dodge votes a casino in, but be careful. Listen to every word and make your own decision, don't follow the crowd.