Clueless; Lets talk Casino again.

[Mike B.]

K C,

Your comments are gladly accepted. If I were to follow the crowd, I'd be supporting a casino.

I believe it would be irresponsible, on my part, not to look at both sides of the coin.

My decision is not based solely upon morality. Part of it is, but another part is based on what I've seen. Another part is based on what other communities have experienced. I do not believe all the costs will be social. Part of the cost may also be associated to economics.

I also think, my opinion, the Government (Fed., State, and local) have a fundamental responsibilty to protect it citizens. The gov't. protects and educates citizens (to some degree) with regards to alcohol and drugs. Why not gambling? If they do, I am not aware of it. (honestly) I know the gambling industry along with the state will be funding programs to help individuals who become or are addicted (that is good). But where are the warning lables.

I think our gov't. ought to be on the same side of the table with it citizens. Not trying (as Mr. Warren Buffet says) "to get them to do something dumb." I can not recall the last time a saw the gov't. trying to get people to drink more alcohol or smoke more cigrettes to raise more money from taxes on those products. That, in my opinion, would be doing something TO the citizens and not FOR the citizens. I put gambling in the same catagory.

Well, enough said. Thanks for yor comments K C.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Mike B.

...I believe it would be irresponsible, on my part, not to look at both sides of the coin.

How is it looking at both sides of the coin when you get most of your information about the "other side" from the side that is against it in the first place. They are misinforming you about the "other side."

Originally Posted by Mike B.

...My decision is not based solely upon morality. Part of it is, but another part is based on what I've seen. Another part is based on what other communities have experienced. I do not believe all the costs will be social. Part of the cost may also be associated to economics....

What other communities are you referring to?

Las Vegas? They have seen massive growth of their city. The state that Las Vegas is in has no state income tax. That is because that the tax revenue that the visitors that come to gamble pay enough to them that high taxes are not needed.

Cripple Creek? Gambling has turned that town around from a virtual ghost town to a very thriving community! Revitalized downtown area, new schools, street repairs, new storm drains and sewers, etc. All paid for by gambling revenue and not taxes by the citizens.

Atlantic City? It has revitalized the area and rebuilt the boardwalks, etc. that was getting run down ever since the end of WW II and the gaining popularity of the automobile and the highways. They lead the nation in the rising value of their homes (25.9%).

Yup, those are some pretty nasty things to happen. If we could only be so unlucky to have the same nasty things happen in Dodge City, I don't know what we would do! (Heavy sarcasm is intentional.)

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by Mike B.

K C,

Your comments are gladly accepted. If I were to follow the crowd, I'd be supporting a casino.

I believe it would be irresponsible, on my part, not to look at both sides of the coin.

My decision is not based solely upon morality. Part of it is, but another part is based on what I've seen. Another part is based on what other communities have experienced. I do not believe all the costs will be social. Part of the cost may also be associated to economics.

I also think, my opinion, the Government (Fed., State, and local) have a fundamental responsibilty to protect it citizens. The gov't. protects and educates citizens (to some degree) with regards to alcohol and drugs. Why not gambling? If they do, I am not aware of it. (honestly) I know the gambling industry along with the state will be funding programs to help individuals who become or are addicted (that is good). But where are the warning lables.

I think our gov't. ought to be on the same side of the table with it citizens. Not trying (as Mr. Warren Buffet says) "to get them to do something dumb." I can not recall the last time a saw the gov't. trying to get people to drink more alcohol or smoke more cigrettes to raise more money from taxes on those products. That, in my opinion, would be doing something TO the citizens and not FOR the citizens. I put gambling in the same catagory.

Well, enough said. Thanks for yor comments K C.

I have a question. Since you care so much about the citizens and the community (which is a good thing and I thank you for that) did you support the packing plants when they were being debated? What is your stand on them now? Would you vote for removing them? Do you think they are destroying our community?

[Redhead 18]

Bubba;

Let's go back a few posts. In your post you stated, " I think that a NO vote for the casino is a vote for the Death of Dodge City. Dodge City is dying".

From the stones that have been thrown at Mike, I need to have good information.

Question? Have you been able to get a copy of Dodge City Convention & Visitor Bureau New Dodge City Map? Get one. This is your tax money spent to publish this map. Thank You. On the 3rd. Page it has in large type, Shopping & Accommodations. It has listed 15 sites under Accommodation. I agree with that.

Now let's look under Shopping, something most Women like to do. We have the following.

Village Square Mall,
Wal-Mart,
Commanche Plaza,
Walgreens,
Hobby Lobby,
Gibson Mall,
Dillions,
Hartland.

Bubba, Dodge City is Dead. Not one name of shopping down town for the Visitor that has been to Boot Hill. If the visitors wanted to purchase Mexican attire they would go to Mexico. Most of these stores do not open until 12:00-1:00 PM. Question, What will bring you Down Town?

Another post,

You stated.

"I believe you are confusing the Casino with the Special Event Center. The people voted they didn't want the SEC at the Park". I agree.

What I have been trying to get from Clueless, answer that are true. Mr.Thorpe picture in the Globe was taken on the ground that the old racetrack was located on. It stated they need about 60 plus acres.

Our CFAB people are bound to place the Event Center in the same area again regardless of the vote of the people. In other words, the Event Center and Casino will be located within walking distance. The next thing you read Clueless said that might not be the best location. I agree with that statement. I understand that the PUBLIC will not have ANY say about the Casino except to vote Yes or NO on Gaming.

The Public has a right to know if both projects are to tie together in the park. It will make a difference in the way people will vote.

Now this goes back to your first post. Is it a smart move to place both in the Down Town area? Forget Boot Hill for another time.

Bronco Fan;

You stated,

"Who really cares where the Casino is built. It has nothing to do with us. Just so the location will be accessible for THE DROVES OF PEOPLE COMING to spend money in Dodge City".

I do not think that is quite true. Example, South Eastern Kansas population is much greater than what we have in ALL of Western Kansas drawing area. If you live in Pratt about half way from Dodge to Wichita, where do you go? Same for Hutchinson, Same for Salina. Then you have lost a lot of your population to draw from. After you have your Entertainment Money spent, what's next in Dodge City? Be truthful it may not happen.

[deuce91]

The way I see the casino picture is more from the economic development. IF the casino employs roughly 600 people (taking the two numbers presented so far and averaging) and if they are paid slightly above minimum wage, $7.00, that's about 8-9 million in "new" wages. Plus, where would all the employees stay? We don't have the housing needed for them. Where would all the employees come from? Ciurrently Dodge has very low unemployment. So low, most employers are having a very hard time finding suitable employee and are taking anyone. This only causes employers to pay more to lure others away. Hence the reason I moved back after college. They're paying me more just to have me out here.

To me, this would cause more people to move to DC. If every employee had a family of let's say 3, that's an additional 1800 people in our community. Add to that more teachers, doctors, police, etc needed for the influx of people coming. I find it hard to believe that any business wouldn't come to Dodge then. (But I have heard of our fine city making it hard for any new "outside" development.) Right now, we are at a ceiling. We've done all we can with the current situation. I sure can't think of anything that would improve our economy with what we have now. The casino could just be the key to breaking open that skylight. I could be all wet about it, but I as a citizen trying to promote the community I choose to live in, I'm willing to take that bet. (Pun intended.)

We've seen going with the status quo isn't working. After college, I came back to my hometown. I've seen the town I love been squashed over and over. Yes, I understand there are tremendous risks involved. But drastic times call for drastic measures. A post earlier elluded to the fact that there's nothing in Dodge. That's true! I won't argue that at all. But if we don't do something, anything, that'll never change. For me, the casino, and dare I say event center, may just be the ticket for change.

As far as the addicted gambling, people get their fix now. We are one of a very few communities in Kansas that have Bingo EVERY night. Drive by any night and you'll see the very people we're all talking about all ready losing their money. However, that money goes to non-profits, so does it make it right? Plus, keno, pull tabs, scratch offs, hold 'em poker tournaments...it's out there now. Dodge has been and always will be a gaming center.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Redhead 18

Bubba;

Let's go back a few posts. In your post you stated, " I think that a NO vote for the casino is a vote for the Death of Dodge City. Dodge City is dying".

From the stones that have been thrown at Mike, I need to have good information.

Question? Have you been able to get a copy of Dodge City Convention & Visitor Bureau New Dodge City Map? Get one. This is your tax money spent to publish this map. Thank You. On the 3rd. Page it has in large type, Shopping & Accommodations. It has listed 15 sites under Accommodation. I agree with that.

Now let's look under Shopping, something most Women like to do. We have the following.

Village Square Mall,
Wal-Mart,
Commanche Plaza,
Walgreens,
Hobby Lobby,
Gibson Mall,
Dillions,
Hartland.

Bubba, Dodge City is Dead. Not one name of shopping down town for the Visitor that has been to Boot Hill. If the visitors wanted to purchase Mexican attire they would go to Mexico. Most of these stores do not open until 12:00-1:00 PM. Question, What will bring you Down Town?

Another post,

You stated.

"I believe you are confusing the Casino with the Special Event Center. The people voted they didn't want the SEC at the Park". I agree.

What I have been trying to get from Clueless, answer that are true. Mr.Thorpe picture in the Globe was taken on the ground that the old racetrack was located on. It stated they need about 60 plus acres.

Our CFAB people are bound to place the Event Center in the same area again regardless of the vote of the people. In other words, the Event Center and Casino will be located within walking distance. The next thing you read Clueless said that might not be the best location. I agree with that statement. I understand that the PUBLIC will not have ANY say about the Casino except to vote Yes or NO on Gaming.

The Public has a right to know if both projects are to tie together in the park. It will make a difference in the way people will vote.

Now this goes back to your first post. Is it a smart move to place both in the Down Town area? Forget Boot Hill for another time.

Bronco Fan;

You stated,

"Who really cares where the Casino is built. It has nothing to do with us. Just so the location will be accessible for THE DROVES OF PEOPLE COMING to spend money in Dodge City".

I do not think that is quite true. Example, South Eastern Kansas population is much greater than what we have in ALL of Western Kansas drawing area. If you live in Pratt about half way from Dodge to Wichita, where do you go? Same for Hutchinson, Same for Salina. Then you have lost a lot of your population to draw from. After you have your Entertainment Money spent, what's next in Dodge City? Be truthful it may not happen.

I go downtown to the bank, the post office, my insurance company, Applebees.

You ask about the casino being within walking distance of the SEC. Again, I say it doesn't really matter. If the casino wants to build within walking distance to the SEC, more power to them. They are a private entity and have the right to build wherever they see fit. If that is next to the SEC, no matter where the SEC is, then that is fine with me. I do agree that the SEC shouldn't be built in the park area and that the voters should be listened to. But, the casino can be built wherever they want to build it.

Dodge City isn't that large of an area, if a visitor to this area will come to go to the casino, they will make a short drive to the SEC as well if there is something there that they want to see.

You also talk about bringing people from Pratt, Hutchinson, Salina, etc. Who says we have to market our casino to eastern Kansas? Couldn't we just as easily market our casino to visitors from Ulysses, Sublette, Liberal, Garden City, Hays, Enid OK, Lamar CO, Pueblo CO, Tucamcari NM, Amarillo TX?

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by deuce91

The way I see the casino picture is more from the economic development. IF the casino employs roughly 600 people (taking the two numbers presented so far and averaging) and if they are paid slightly above minimum wage, $7.00, that's about 8-9 million in "new" wages. Plus, where would all the employees stay? We don't have the housing needed for them. Where would all the employees come from? Ciurrently Dodge has very low unemployment. So low, most employers are having a very hard time finding suitable employee and are taking anyone. This only causes employers to pay more to lure others away. Hence the reason I moved back after college. They're paying me more just to have me out here.

To me, this would cause more people to move to DC. If every employee had a family of let's say 3, that's an additional 1800 people in our community. Add to that more teachers, doctors, police, etc needed for the influx of people coming. I find it hard to believe that any business wouldn't come to Dodge then. (But I have heard of our fine city making it hard for any new "outside" development.) Right now, we are at a ceiling. We've done all we can with the current situation. I sure can't think of anything that would improve our economy with what we have now. The casino could just be the key to breaking open that skylight. I could be all wet about it, but I as a citizen trying to promote the community I choose to live in, I'm willing to take that bet. (Pun intended.)

We've seen going with the status quo isn't working. After college, I came back to my hometown. I've seen the town I love been squashed over and over. Yes, I understand there are tremendous risks involved. But drastic times call for drastic measures. A post earlier elluded to the fact that there's nothing in Dodge. That's true! I won't argue that at all. But if we don't do something, anything, that'll never change. For me, the casino, and dare I say event center, may just be the ticket for change.

As far as the addicted gambling, people get their fix now. We are one of a very few communities in Kansas that have Bingo EVERY night. Drive by any night and you'll see the very people we're all talking about all ready losing their money. However, that money goes to non-profits, so does it make it right? Plus, keno, pull tabs, scratch offs, hold 'em poker tournaments...it's out there now. Dodge has been and always will be a gaming center.

Very good post with excellent points being made!

[Army_of_One]

I agree, very good post Deuce...

[lurker]

It's important to comprehend that the Packers are directly injecting the equivalent of the projected gaming's yearly worker cash-flow into the DC economy every month.

[gunnar1073]

Originally Posted by lurker

It's important to comprehend that the Packers are directly injecting the equivalent of the projected gaming's yearly worker cash-flow into the DC economy every month.

Yeah, injected is a nice way to say it...

Everyone seems to be dodging the more important underlying issue to this whole casino question: Whether or not this "Casino" is going to have a "Toby Keith's I love this Bar & Grill".

I pray not....