Dodge City News Questions Mark forgot to ask, re $34 million for casino infrastructure

[Mike B.]

Originally Posted by Clueless

There will be a slight wait, the line is eleven years long...

Clueless,

Eleven years long is right! Or maybe 11 years ago someone stepped out of line and we lost our place and we had to start over at the back of the line!

[notyoubob]

Originally Posted by jeezeweeze

Well there you go....a water slide will give you an enema and a douche in one fell swoop. Trust me on this...........lol

well maybe not everyone

Have you been spreading zebra mussels across this countries lakes?

[old timer]

The City is at maximum capacity now. Dodge City can't grow without new water and sewer treatment facilities - with or without a Casino. In fact, Casino's are fairly low volume users - did you know that?. Hotel's yes, Restaurants, some, Casino's low.

Funny that only after the CFAB chair, et al, decided to put his casino where there was no sewer nor water did the city suddenly turn to Why Not Dodge Funds and state, as a fact, that we needed to spend $34 million dollars right away on infrastructure... hmmm, odd that given the previous location planned for the Events Center (city core), that cost never came up.... odd that growth figures (even though school enrollment is down again this year) are being thrown around based on ? Nothing that has been stated, no research, no facts put out -- just some massive guess that a few hundred casino employees are going to equal huge growth? Correct me, please, if in fact any hard details have been given. I have seen none... only city commissioners waning broadly about thousands of new people to come here......... Facts, anyone ?

[Justoo]

Originally Posted by old timer

Facts, anyone ?

I don't know about Ford county, but facts just get in the way in Ellis county.

[Clueless]

Originally Posted by old timer

Funny that only after the CFAB chair, et al, decided to put his casino where there was no sewer nor water did the city suddenly turn to Why Not Dodge Funds and state, as a fact, that we needed to spend $34 million dollars right away on infrastructure... hmmm, odd that given the previous location planned for the Events Center (city core), that cost never came up.... odd that growth figures (even though school enrollment is down again this year) are being thrown around based on ? Nothing that has been stated, no research, no facts put out -- just some massive guess that a few hundred casino employees are going to equal huge growth? Correct me, please, if in fact any hard details have been given. I have seen none... only city commissioners waning broadly about thousands of new people to come here......... Facts, anyone ?

First, we start with your definition of what will constitute a 'fact'. What evidence will satisfy your definition. You always say..."hmmmm, odd.... - but have you actually researched before you speak?

Have you read the City's engineering report from PEC?
Have you talked with City water treatment staff or Public Works?
Have you met with local builders re: needs for infrastructure & housing starts?
Have you read 2004 report by Christiansen Capital Advisors re: Casino here?
Have you read the Christiansen updates for 2006 and 2008?
Have you studied the 2008 Community Housing Assessment report?
Have you directly talked with either Ford Co Casino developer re: their input?

Do you know both Casino developers have been req'd to have independent studies completed at a significant cost?

There has been a lot of research done, by very competent people. It's very sophomoric to believe that Casino developers will spend $100 Million of their money (not yours) on "just some massive guess". Do you really believe that?

It's disrespectful, at best, to not believe others who are expert in their fields when they study any issue and report findings.

OT - you use your keyboard as your weapon, but that doesn't serve to enhance our collective knowledge and understanding of issues that face our community.

When you provide me with fact - I'll answer in the same manner. Oh, and I forgot to mention that I have done all the questions above-that's why our opinions are so different.

[old timer]

http://www.butlernational.com/Testimony.pdf

"Christiansen Capital Advisors (CCA) engaged
by the Kansas Lottery to assess the feasibility of gaming in Kansas, projected even higher gross revenues from a Casino in Dodge City in their 2004 report and again in their updated report of 2006, than our own estimates."

That study? But we're talking about our Events Center, our tax dollars and the huge increase in infrastructure costs by the location (gee, next to someone's ? casino) of same. Will save that casino group millions and millions to do this, of course.

And they also pointed out "In order to maintain the quality of life of the area, the additional fiscal and economic costs incurred due to a casino would need to be covered by additional governmental revenues. ..

"Conversely, benefit-cost ratios of 0.75 shows public benefits are only 75 percent of public costs – costs exceed benefits."

And , "Since gambling has been legalized and made accessible in several states, the range of pathological gamblers has increased to 1.5 to 5 percent in those states..."

And of course "Distance from Casino in miles and
Annual Spending per Person*

0-10 $ 527.64
10-25 $ 234.23
25-50 $ 114.76
50-75 $ 66.97
75-100 $ 32.22
100-125 $ 13.37
125-150 $ 14.36
150-175 $ 8.99
175-200 $ 3.29

*Estimates by Christiansen Capital Advisors, LLC in current dollar value (2007$) http://www.srskansas.org/problemgambling/PDF/WSU_Impact_Study_on_Expansion.pdf.

So basically Christiansen Capital Advisors indicates that most of the money will leave, most will be from Dodge City and nearby, public costs will go up more than public income, and we better get a lot more police with that $1 million dollars Dodge City or so will get. Thanks for bringing the studies up. Guess you really don't want people to read them, do you?

But back on topic. The location of the Events Center is an open question to those without financial involvement and profit in the casino. There's our difference of opinion. I'm not involved with either casino. I'm interested in saving downtown Dodge. And by having the Events Center at a location that doesn't require massive infrastructure costs.

If you casino owners want to build where no services are available -- hey, it is your money. If it become our money (ie. sales tax) than I would think a class-action court case might be of interest to some of us. And we do have the resources for that. The state law is very, very clear -- bascially "No tax money for the casino, none, for nothing, period."

One casino group even offered to build the Events Center. Not the Olathe, KS Butler National -- the Wichita group, the one that offered free land. That sounds pretty good to me. But than I'm not selling land for an events center -- an important point. (So few dollars left, so little time to take them and run...)

If the city actually needs infrastructure upgrades, than property taxes are the route to go. That's legal. And of course, the actual infrastructure costs of an events center, much lower than hotels, apartment complexes, restaurants, etc.

Oh, yes, you said

It's disrespectful, at best, to not believe others who are expert in their fields when they study any issue and report findings.

Gee, hmmm-- facts here -- 10 years of studies on the Events Center by experts -- none would put it two miles west of town. You might respect those experts.