Sounds like it could be an interesting weekend

[wordsmythe]

Originally Posted by Detector

I know what you're saying Wordy it just frustrates me to no end trying to understand why some people defend this behavior. I don't see that it has anything to do with defending the constitution and everything to do with defending the right to be a jerk to each other.

It frustrates me too but I don't see it as a choice.

Nobody's stopping him from spouting his crap to the people that want to listen, but we are defending his right to spout his crap to people that don't want to listen? Is it just me or does anyone else see the problem with this?

Once again the First Amendment wasn't designed to protect popular speech because popular points of view don't need it.

Sometimes I think people allow this to be covered under the "right to free speech" just because its their way of poking fun at America.

When I was a kid my mom used to get on to me for giving my brother crap verbally. Should I have defended my right to free speech? my right to be a jerk like it or not? Ya, and my mom would have expressed her rights to warm my butt.

Your mother is not the government so she can impose her rules as she sees fit.

It just seems we pick and choose WHEN to defend this right to free speech at the worst possible times. Clearly what this jerk does is wrong and could easily be stopped without touching his precious right to be a jerk, or free speech which ever you prefer, simply from the obvious fact he's mentally abusing this family.

I never pick and choose at all. I'm behind the First Amendment at all times and for all people. Unless the message falls directly under the narrow definition of Unprotected Speech then there's nothing to choose. If you don't want to hear the message then don't pay attention to it.

He's about to take probably the worst moment in this family's life and make it even worse, he's taking the last and only time this family will have to say goodbye to their child and turning it into a roadshow and we defend his right to do so by the right to free speech? He only gets it if they let him have it. I've seen the Patriot Guard in action. They do a wonderful job and are always a fitting tribute for the fallen.

He only wins if we do something that he can take to court to get more attention.

[Detector]

I'm confused...can you show an example of when the right of free speech has been picked and choosed?

Well if I was to go to the courthouse lawn and express my right to free speech with my opinion of the judge, how long do you think it would be before I found my butt in the clink? Oh so I would need to get a permit huh! and just where would I get that permit? Uh huh!!!

I used to take my guitar and amp to Wright Park years ago and jam. One time our band decided we would play in the band shell so I went to the city and got all the permits. As we were sitting up a police officer comes and tells us we would need to pack up our stuff and leave. When I said we had all the permits I was told they thought we were with Arts in the Park thats why we were given the permits. We were not allowed to stay and play. It was what we were going to play(rock) why we were not allowed to express ourselves.

If I abuse my right to free speech on my wife or kids I go to jail for it. I believe its called mental abuse. So what makes Phelps actions of abusing this family mentally legal and protected under the constitution? Because we choose too.

We clearly have the ability to pick and choose when something falls under the right to free speech when we want. This situation clearly steps beyond the bounds of simple free speech. As I said what about mental abuse? mental anguish? or hell, put Phelps away for mental instability. He clearly qualifies.

There just seems to be so many options to take this guy out of action that leave his right to free speech pristine. But no we choose to protect his right to abuse others under the guise of the right to free speech.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Detector

Well if I was to go to the courthouse lawn and express my right to free speech with my opinion of the judge, how long do you think it would be before I found my butt in the clink? Oh so I would need to get a permit huh! and just where would I get that permit? Uh huh!!!

I used to take my guitar and amp to Wright Park years ago and jam. One time our band decided we would play in the band shell so I went to the city and got all the permits. As we were sitting up a police officer comes and tells us we would need to pack up our stuff and leave. When I said we had all the permits I was told they thought we were with Arts in the Park thats why we were given the permits. We were not allowed to stay and play. It was what we were going to play(rock) why we were not allowed to express ourselves.

We clearly have the ability to pick and choose when something falls under the right to free speech when we want. This situation clearly steps beyond the bounds of simple free speech. As I said what about mental abuse? mental anguish? or hell, put Phelps away for mental instability. He clearly qualifies.

What the police and government did in that situation was wrong if you had all the permits. At that point in order for you to prove yourself right, you would have gotten an attorney and filed suit against the policeman, the police dept., and the city of Dodge City.

That is the point, you weren't prepared to go that far for whatever reason. Fred Phelps and his cronnies are prepared to take it that far.

Fred Phelps and his cronnies are "attention whores," as soon as people quit paying attention and they stop getting press, they will probably just fade away.

[Detector]

Fred Phelps and his cronnies are "attention whores," as soon as people quit paying attention and they stop getting press, they will probably just fade away.

You could be right Bubba but my experience has been ignoring a problem only makes it worse. Does ignoring the kid throwing a tantrum looking for attention make it go away? Does ignoring a bully looking for attention make him go away? No all it does is pass the problem off to someone else. Sooner or later someone WILL need to deal with the problem you ignore, and it generally only gets worse.

[wordsmythe]

Not giving them the attention they crave and ignoring them are 2 very different things.

[TexKan]

Well the least the city could and should have done is give them a permit for 45 minutes on Trail Street OR...... give them 45 minutes 3 hurs AFTER the services......... nothing says it has to be at the funeral home during the funeral...... that is not "free" anything - that is being a "public nusiciance". You can "sing" his rights all you want............. it is still wrong.......... I don't live there so I can't say one way or the other......... but I do know wrong from right Wordie....... I am a veteran like many on this board........... do me a favor and don't "educate" me on "rights".............. I spent my time making sure we all have them....... I'm not afraid of someone cause they have attorneys......... the city might be....... but obviously the cycle fellas aren't either.....................

[Highwayman]

A right to speak does not guarantee a right to an audience. Since Phelps had to pull a permit, make the permit for five miles away. The funeral party has a right to conduct a funeral and be able to hear what’s being said at graveside.

I think some folks enjoy Phelps disruptions because if gives them an excuse to hold him up as an example and bash all folks of faith.

[Detector]

I think some folks enjoy Phelps disruptions because if gives them an excuse to hold him up as an example and bash all folks of faith.

I agree HW. There seems to be so many ways to deal with this issue WITHOUT stepping on his rights its got to be a political thing. Its like some people enjoy flaunting a religious nut so much they protect their them just so they can say see how ridiculous religion is.

A right to speak does not guarantee a right to an audience. Since Phelps had to pull a permit, make the permit for five miles away.

Exactly. Or the idea that the permit allows him a different time frame because of interfering with the funeral. As I said this situation could be dealt with properly IF they chose to.

Didn't he say all the people of Dodge City were going to hell for allowing this funeral? I take that as a personal threat. Isn't it against some law to threaten someone? HEHE

The logic behind protecting this guy's actions under the constitution just completely escapes me.

[TexKan]

me too............ hell there are a few things here lately that I cann't figger out.....

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by Detector

....The logic behind protecting this guy's actions under the constitution just completely escapes me.

There is the ability to put restrictions on speech such as were, when, volume etc.