In Religion and Politics

[agnostic]

hehe.

[The Drifter]

Great Posts by everyone.

Personal attacks on what someone believes is one of the lowest things possible. Just because you dont agree doesnt mean you should resort to 3rd grade name calling. I dont know about the whole Christianity thing, but i do believe in a supreme being. I just dont know if any one religion is correct. But thats just me, i have nothing against those who believe otherwise. I won't label anyone for believing a certain way.

To bring politics into play, as the threads topic also states, i dont squabble over parties or any of that junk. I love what George Washington said about how political parties will split the nation. A lot of people get heat over being Democrat or being Republican. Does it matter. I myself am thinking about joining the Democratic Socialists party. Some would call them communists, but thats far from the truth.

People take some things to seriously, life is to short to fight and name call over petty things like this. In a discussion you are trying to sway someone to see things as you do, nit picking will only discredit you. As Grandma always says. "If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all."

[Detector]

I went to church religiously(excuse the pun) until I was around 10 years old. I believe it was somewhere at this time I began to take close look religion and begin to put my person beliefs up front. I still feel uncomfortable saying this for some reason, but I started to question the Churches roll in my beliefs. I think my questioning came from visiting many different Christian Churches and find each had its own version on the bible.

Now I think church is a good thing. I have said before that while I wouldn't send my worst enemy to basic training I think its something everyone should be required to do. Point being it will result in a better person. This may sound odd and I hope it doesn't offend anyone, but I see the church much like a club.

Take a biker club, for example, made up of your more dedicated bikers they choose to live and breath Harley's. I can choose to ride a Harley and be just as proud of it as the rest but choose not to join the club. Doesn't mean I don't feel the same about my bike and I would probably have the same reaction to someone saying Harley sux. I just feel I don't need to be a part of the club to enjoy my bike just as much, and I am just as offended by attacks on my bike.

Let me try and clarify a few points I've tried to make that might not be clear to some. When I speak of of church I'm in most cases referring to the bible or the teachings of the bible. Church is simply an organizational tool for translating the bible to modern times. You got to remember most of the bible was written almost two thousand years ago and many of its references no longer apply today. Also some people misunderstand the teaching of the bible and take it literally. The teachings of the bible are the morals contained in the stories NOT the stories themselves.

That is to say the bible is not trying to teach that Jesus died on the cross and was resurrected, but that if a person is willing to make sacrifices for others, they will be rewarded for it. A good moral value but often misunderstood that the bible is trying to say some guy was crucified and returned from the dead. Church is meant to help translate these values to a more modern group of people. This is why people of the church are very defensive of those who doubt the bibles teachings. The bible, when taught properly, is packed with some of the best teachings of moral values, its a shame some people will never see it for its true value but see it as a book of unbelievable garbage.

Our Constitution is only a few hundred years old yet we have had to make many revisions just to stay with the times. Like the bible its foundation is solid and good but without its revisions it would be hard to live by in modern times. What really need to happen is the bibles teaching brought up to date. Say the book of Adams where the good solid values in the bible are set for modern teaching, but then thats what church is for. I suppose if we had a organization dedicated to teaching the constitution in a modern form we wouldn't need to be changing it constantly.

This may seem off topic but bare with me.

Heres something that I has always intrigued me. Why is it we, as adults, choose to lie to children about the big jolly guy Santa Clause? We know its only a story and we know at some point the kids will find out it was a lie, but we continue to purposely tell the story anyway.

[K C Muffin]

Oh let me let me let me!!!!!

I chose to tell the Santa Claus story to my kids when they were young so that they would have a dream. Actually, I still believe in Santa. Maybe just not the jolly old elf dressed in red, but the spirit of Santa. Little ones don't respond to a spirit, but they definitely do to the jolly old elf. And when the time came that the oldest told me about a story he heard on the playground (that there wasn't a Santa), I looked him straight in the face and told him I still believed. True, there wasn't a jolly old elf zooming around the earth on Christmas Eve, but it's a spirit. And then begged him not to tell his little brother. I still believe in and live for the spirit of Christmas. His name can be Jesus or Santa, but there's definitely a loving, giving, kind spirit. Just wish it would last all year long!

[Detector]

Perfect! Now let me make a few correlations.

Taking the story of How the Grinch stole Christmas we all realize its only a story meant to teach the spirit of Christmas, but admit it, don't ya just get all warm and fuzzy when in the end the Grinch's heart grows as he finally understands the meaning of Christmas, and even though he had been so mean to them Who's they welcomed him in spite of his flaws?

We as adults know that Santa Clause(God) only exists as the spirit(religion) of the holiday, and that the stories(bible) are only meant to make you feel good not trick you into thinking Santa is real. Those who don't believe in Christmas probably laugh their butts off thinking what a bunch of morons believing Santa(God) is real, the story of How the Grinch stole Christmas(bible) is real and make fun at us for observing such a fake holiday(religion).

When I pull that dollar out of my pocket and lay it on the counter, I don't think about being offended because it says In God We Trust, because I believe in the spirit behind it. I know God, to me, represents the good that is in all of us if we just take the time to see it for what it is.

I hope this encourages people to take just a bit of time to think before they respond negatively toward Christians and religion as a whole. No one is forcing you to believe in Santa Clause only asking that you respect their choice to do so in the spirit of things.

[K C Muffin]

Oh, maaan! You roped me in. I shoulda known you were sittin't there waiting for some pollyanna to jump in on a Santa Claus thread! Dammit! I try hard to stay out of the religion things!

The deal is, my Catholic faith has been shaken to the core by the problems in the recent past with priests. Time was, you could blindly trust the clergy. Not any more. I have a hard time believing all the Catholic teachings now, but still consider myself Christian. I firmly believe there is a Supreme Being that designed us all with a free will. I also believe in the end of the world as we know it - I just hope and pray I'm reunited with family and friends that have 'gone' before me.

You won't catch me badmouthing anybody for their religious beliefs - well, except the "religious" warriors.

[Detector]

Well I wasn't trying to rope anyone but I must admit I couldn't have asked for a better lead in

I was only trying to point out that people of faith aren't all that different from any other once you understand why they feel the way they do. We all know better than to judge all bikers based on the few bad apples, yet many still judge all Christians based on a few bad apples. We understand the idea behind Santa, Christmas and stories and that the important thing is passing on the spirit of giving and good will toward man to our children, yet many carry hatred toward Christians/people of faith who only wish to do the same.

[Detector]

Sorry agnostic I was not ignoring your comments on evolution and ID to be rude I was just trying to stay on track with my thinking. Hehe one track mind I guess.

I do understand where the supporters of evolution are coming from I just happen to be the type that puts more weight behind evidence and common sense than theory. Frankly, after doing research on the theory of evolution I'm rather disappointed in the scientific community. Its no wonder a mythological theory such as Intelligent Design(ID) is giving the supposed scientific theory of evolution a run for its money. Science has pushed the whole concept of how life began into the realm of mythology.

Much of my disappointment comes from the stance science has taken on the whole debate. The very fact there is a debate at all should motivate science to look for an answer. Just refusing to take a theory serious and therefore not worth mention in science is just wrong. Many other mythological theories are mentioned in science if nothing else for amusement, but because ID challenges the only theory recognized by the scientific community they've chose not to investigate with a Well, lets have a look here attitude, but with a out right refusal to think about it.

I'm not falling for that "It can't be tested scientifically therefore it shouldn't be in science" malarkey. You can scientifically test for Santa Clause or flying Raine Deer if you really want to its just they've instead chose to erect a wall and call it not science. There are some serious issues with the theory of evolution that science has chosen to ignore instead of searching for a scientific answer. Isn't that what science is all about?

If science were to approach this where life came from debate, which by the way I happen to think is far too important to leave to theory, in a more unbiased scientific manor we might just throw ID out the door in the process. After all, if science can prove evolution and take it from the book of theories to the book of facts, ID has no leg to stand on. But, since evolution is only theory, as is ID, then just because it has sciences stamp of approval isn't going to make the ID theory go away.

Show the world a fossil of just one of the hundreds of thousands of different species in the process of mutating and ID is dead. If it can't be done, then science should also calculate the odds that such a fossil has never been found indicating such evolution never happened, and except it. I believe all theories deserve scientific study. If the theory is bogus it sure shouldn't take science long to PROVE IT.

[K C Muffin]

Just saw this in the paper and wanted to share - off the original topic, but Detector reminded me about Santie Claws:

DEAR ABBY: I am 8 years old, and I have a question that has bothered me for months. Is Santa Claus a real person, and if not, why does everyone say he is? And if Santa Claus ISN'T real, where do all the letters go? -- CONFUSED IN KINGSTON, N.Y.
DEAR CONFUSED: Santa Claus is more than a human being. Santa Claus is the living symbol of selfless giving, handed down from one generation to the next. In 1897, a girl named Virginia asked the same question in a newspaper. A very wise newspaper editor, Frank Church, wrote in reply:

"Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. ... The most real things in the world are those which neither children nor men can see. ... Thank God, he (Santa Claus) lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now -- nay, 10 times 10,000 years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood."

Letters to Santa Claus go where every other letter goes -- directly to the U.S. Postal Service, which makes sure the letters reach their destination regardless of "rain, hail, sleet or snow."

And I agree with Abby!!!

[TexKan]

Science would probably do that IF religon would do the same. Problem is that religon is for our "emotional" foundation - science is not. Hence the 2 will never meet. Probably just as well.