In Religion and Politics

[Detector]

First I want to say while this thread was inspired by various posts/posters it in no way targets a specific post or poster(s). The objective of this thread is to promote thought noting more.

Why is it nothing warrants a swifter retaliation response than one attacking religion or politics? Now religion and can understand because its like attacking ones moral values and beliefs which is personal, but politics? Whats up here? How can two so different subjects trigger the same defensive, and often hot, response?

First lets look at religion. This one I can easily speak of from experience having been drawn into many hot religious topics. Why is this topic so hard to manage without slipping into attacks on posters personally? This should be pretty easy to understand but for those atheists, the answer may be shadowed from view making it hard to understand. Then it could also be they know very well what they do, but realize the weakness is in having an unfair advantage in an unarmed opponent.

I like to think myself fairly thick skinned. Not so much by choice as by fire. Some of you long time posters may remember years back when my family and I were subject to uncalled for personal attacks over at DCT. I chose not to whine to the webmaster but instead waited for the Cavalry in the form of the Admin or fellow posters which never arrived. I assumed either the attackers were friends of the admin and posters, or 'personal attacks' is subject to the poster being attacked. In any case I took my knocks and the results was a thicker hide.

In religion there seems to be, for some, open grounds for attacks were the attacked's only form of defense is either to suck it up and take the knocks, or retaliate. So how does one retaliate against someone who has no religion? A personal attack is bound to be the result at which point the attacked screams foul and sets back content in their bubble as the feathers fly against the poster for a personal attack.

Religion, for me, has little to do with what supposedly happened in the past, and every thing to do with the present. I view religion as the adopted set of moral values or rules we all set for ourselves. As such if you think about it, then all of us have a form of religion and thus subject to attack. I found this out the few times I responded to an attack on my religion with an equal attack on those that think themselves as non religious, only to find out they also have a soft spot in personal beliefs they just don't think of it as a religion.

Because of my exposure to the Christian values while growing up and because they still closely fit my personal beliefs I call myself a Christian. Much like calling myself a Republican because their values seem to better fit my own. As a Christian, when some one attacks the Christian faith directly I tend to take it as a personal attack because they are in fact attacking my values and beliefs, and find myself wanting to, and often responding in kind. I soon find myself to be tagged the bad guy of the thread although I feel I was personally attacked first. I can call a Christian whatever I want but I best choose my words very carefully when talking about others. Although I see no difference.

The Christian persecution: Often I see references to the crusades when attacking Christians, and comparing them to Hitler. Clearly nothing but a personal attack because it has no value as anything else. Hitlers attempt to conquer the world was only 60 years ago the crusades happened a thousand years ago. HELLO! most people still wiped their butts with their hands a thousand years ago. Besides, there isn't a one of you non Christians that can claim your ancestors didn't kill thousands of innocent people in the name of conquest. At least the Christians, depending on your belief of course, had the idea to rid the earth of sin not just killing to take their stuff.

To be continued: Feel free to respond.

[lurker]

Lover's quarrels should be included in the faith-based and/or emotional realm.

From Ben Franklin:
"The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason."
"Those who in quarrels interpose, must often wipe a bloody nose."

[agnostic]

Good post detector. I like how that's presented.

I know myself and other of the non Christians on this board (and im thankful they are here..as you should be too) throw out a lot of Christian criticism. My beef, however, with Christianity is almost always with the radical Christian taliban. Those nuts have lost it. People that are so right-wing fundamentalist that they not only don't agree with anyone else, it's almost as if they're blinded from anyone else.

While there are hypocrisies in the bible, in the history of Christianity, and even in Christians today, I understand that a very good number of the "Christians" today are good, honest, folks. It's just those bad apples that stick out like a sore thumb. It also doesn't help that the word "Christian" is used in such a wide variety of means to define something or someone. Kind of blurs the lines a bit..

I do believe that I have my own "religion." As for my faith in God, I still don't know. Hence my agnosticism..if you will..I just don't see the empirical proof out there. And i know i know highway is reading this and saying COME ON MAN!!!!! Intelligent Design!!!!

But that just doesn't cut it for me..Believing in God and recognizing him as the ultimate power, and that he truly exists is a much bigger decision to me than that. I am not going to simply rest assured that God exists because the universe has elements of design or the ideas of his existence are found in a book written by folks who you so delicately put as "still wiping their butts with their hands."

Without getting into an argument of intelligent design ..I grew up going to church and did all of the "Christian" things til about the age of 12. At that point I started throwing up the flag. Does that mean I have it out for Christians? No. Does it mean I disagree with elements of Christianity? Yes.

While my lack of faith in the Christian God may label me agnostic or atheist, or both, it doesn't mean I lack morals, etc. Many of my morals are what you would call Christian based. I would not call them that, as they existed independently of said religion. Regardless, they exist. I also have my own personal belief on the creation of earth, evolution, any element of the possibility of a God's doing in this process, etc.

And I've also shared my brunt of personal attacks on this board and DCT. But that's ok. People are uncomfortable with different belief systems I guess. I try not to step on toes, but it's hard when there are people such as the Xian taliban, and people on this board who criticize your beliefs with unfound bias.

Anywho, delightful post. Me gusta.

[Bubba]

[Detector]

Wow agnostic I'm impressed. Not that I didn't think you had it in you, but that you presented that very well and with no harshness.

[agnostic]

Thanks. Like I said, it helps a lot when the presentor keeps to an honest tone.

[SunnyD]

Agnostic, as a Christian, I have to say "bravo" for presenting your view in the way you presented it. I only hope that DCV, over at that "other" board pays attention and learns something. (We all know he sneaks over here...lol).

Great post.

Sunny

[TexKan]

Heck Ag - i can't rep ya cause I gotta go find others first.....Good point of view tho....I'm kinda in the middle with ya. I believe more in my morals, sense of fair play, and not wearing my core foundation as a group or groups. I wish Fred were here to see this love fest.......

I gotta love ya baby - my son is also an agnostic - and he is the most moral, ethical, fair but logical person I have ever known. As a family we don't talk that much about religeon or the lack of it. It's not for me to say who's right - no one has come back from the dead to tell me. I hear about lights and such but nuthin more. Now my son might ante up for the 10,000 (?) virgins.....but that's a guy thing......LOL Sometimes I'm not sure who raised him....LOL LOL

Detector I think that was one of the finer posts I have read. I try really hard to respect everyone's opinion but I find more folks hidin behind religon than actually practicing what I feel religon is or should be. I know we all can get bristly about religon or politics. Ya know I just have a problem with someone tellin me I "don't get it" if I choose not to have either. I like my middle of the road status and I actually am somewhat religous and politcal but only when I choose. Very good thoughtful post there fella.

[K C Muffin]

So, TK, you proud of 'em? I am. The religious threads are the ones that turn nasty so fast, but yet the first two posts are genuine and no names were called!

Born and raised Catholic myself. Course after 2 divorces, I don't think the Catholics think they did a very good brain-washing job. I think they washed their hands of me long ago. But I still do believe most of the things taught to me as a young one. I might not be able to defend chapter and verse (not too many old-time Catholics can). I do respect those that are agnostic, as well as the conscientious objectors to war. If they're truly CO and not just claiming to be in order to get out of fighting.

Good job, guys!

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by agnostic

...And i know i know highway is reading this and saying COME ON MAN!!!!! Intelligent Design!!!!

I wasn’t, but I’m so happy that you think of me.

Nice post.