The Anti-Christ

[old timer]

Islam and the Prophet Muhammad| Lectures in Medieval History

and you must have meant a couple of hundred years -- not sure about "their" lands, Jewish or Arab lands, maybe, but ...

1000 years of Christians having their land taken by Muslims.

By 732, Islam had spread from Spain to Sumatra, and Muslim ships dominated both the Mediterranean Sea and Indian Ocean. The reasons for this rapid expansion were numerous.

a. The Persian and Byzantine empires were exhausted and could not resist Muslim attacks.
b. Many people in the lands of both the Byzantine and Persian empires favored monotheism and found the Byzantine trinity and Persian dualism distasteful. Islam was more to their liking, and they not only converted to Islam, but helped to spread it further.
c. The Muslims swept away the burdensome taxation and top-heavy government in those lands that accepted them.
d. Islam was simple to understand, and its observances were clear and unequivocal. It did not call for asceticism and condemned excesses of all kinds. e. Conversion was a simple and straightforward matter.

And this may be of interest:

The Later Roman Empire | Lectures in Medieval History

[Detector]

and you must have meant a couple of hundred years -- not sure about "their" lands, Jewish or Arab lands, maybe, but ...

Christianity was the dominant religion of the time(seventh century). As the faith of the Roman Empire it included the entire Mediterranean including the Middle East where it was born. The Christian world was a prime target for the earliest Muslim rulers, and it remained so for Muslim leaders for the next 1000 years.

a. The Persian and Byzantine empires were exhausted and could not resist Muslim attacks.

In other words their land was taken

b. Many people in the lands of both the Byzantine and Persian empires favored monotheism and found the Byzantine trinity and Persian dualism distasteful. Islam was more to their liking, and they not only converted to Islam, but helped to spread it further.

So more people favored one form of religion with no options for their own flavor? I highly doubt that.

c. The Muslims swept away the burdensome taxation and top-heavy government in those lands that accepted them.

Yup, thats what happen when you take over all right! No government at all. Hum, maybe not such a bad idea!

d. Islam was simple to understand, and its observances were clear and unequivocal. It did not call for asceticism and condemned excesses of all kinds. e. Conversion was a simple and straightforward matter.

Yes Islam is simple. You either do what it says or die.

[old timer]

They believed that the church should own nothing. Wasn't popular among Christain church leaders, for sure:


The Rise of Popular Heresies| Lectures in Medieval History | Dr. Lynn Harry Nelson, Emeritus Professor of Medieval History, KU

Since moral suasion had not succeeded, Innocent III (1198-1216) asked the king of France to mount a crusade against the heretics. Under the leadership of Simon de Montfort, the northern French knights committed such atrocities that many of the nobility of southern France joined the resistance against them. The "crusade" was eventually successful and the few remaining Cathari were driven deep underground, but the brilliant culture of the French Midi was also destroyed, and the land of the South was annexed to the Kingdom of France.

[Detector]

They believed that the church should own nothing. Wasn't popular among Christain church leaders, for sure

OK, I'll give ya that one. I'm the first to admit past, and present, church leaders are as prone to abuse power as the next guy. When I refer to Christians I don't include church leaders. Power corrupts anybody including Christians.

[doc holliday]

Originally Posted by old timer

No, that's not true. Accepting the lessons of a bible and believing in the rantings of certain books in it are not the same.

What are you saying O.T.? You can pick and choose what you want to believe? You either believe in it or you don't. That would be like me saying, "Out of the Ten Commandments I choose to believe and follow #1,3,7,8, & 9... 2,4,5,6 &10 are really way out there and don't really apply to my situation."

Sure there are things in the Bible that don't apply due the times we live in, i.e. eating certain things (we have better ways to preserve things now). But as far as God and the anti-Christ, my opinion is you’re either in or out. As I said, that’s my opinion. It just seems there are too many people that want it both ways, the salvation that God offers, but then doing whatever they want to do to others just to get ahead.

I'm not saying however, that you have to follow an organized religion to be a good person, (actualy there are probably more people that follow an organized religion that you wouldn't want to turn your back on than those that don't) there are people that will do bad things and justify it by picking and choosing just certain passages in the Bible and disregarding the rest.

But as they say, to each his own.

I realize I've gotten a little off topic, but that's usually what happens when you try and argue religion, sorry.

Be sure and lock your car in the church parking lot!

[old timer]

You can pick and choose what you want to believe?

Of an English translation of many other languages, with political power affecting the version(s) of a book that represents the King of England (one version) or the Pope (earlier version), etc. -- certainly I can use the good and ignore the bad. Any book. But your position means that others picked what you believe ? Right ?

[Made in the USA]

Originally Posted by doc holliday

"Out of the Ten Commandments I choose to believe and follow #1,3,7,8, & 9... 2,4,5,6 &10 are really way out there and don't really apply to my situation."

You mean we can't do that???? Damn! I have my favorites!!

[doc holliday]

Originally Posted by old timer

certainly I can use the good and ignore the bad. But your position means that others picked what you believe ? Right ?

Use the good and ignore the bad? You mean that if you ignore the anti-Christ it doesn't exist?

As far as my position, I was not around back then, so I have to rely on what was written about that time. I am not a sheep blindly following the heard, but my point is if you want to accept Gods gifts, then you should accept his wrath also.

Debating religion is like debating politics; I will not change your mind, as I'm sure you won't change mine. I believe in GOD, and just because some things in the Bible are undesirable or ugly doesn't mean I don't believe in them also.

[doc holliday]

Originally Posted by Made in the USA

You mean we can't do that???? Damn! I have my favorites!!

Don't we all!

[K C Muffin]

me, too (have my faves) - I also believe in God, don't practice my religion as I was raised to do. But, while I believe in God, I know others don't. I don't try to force my beliefs on others and nobody can prove everything in the Bible just yet, so I'm OK with somebody else thinkin' it's just a good story. I'm just not OK with somebody not respecting my right to have a different belief than they have.