Stop Univesal Health!!!

[TexKan]

I don't know and I could care less what happened to the bills. I was illustrating the point that no matter how we propose the "option" there will be some that still are without health care. So why ask the government to intervene? So, I help make it more affordable by paying higher taxes, but some are still going to continue to be uninsured. Then when they get sick their bills, too, will just "disappear". And, I will joyfully get to pay for it. And they won't. So what changes? The Feds have managed to screw up most everything they touch, I just do not want them making health care decisions for me. Who will they put in charge? A nursing school dropout?

You paid for the bills that you care so little about thru taxes and higher premiums and less allowable items. You are paying now -

You make it more affordable by standardizing the amount that can be charged in the first place. When the majority have a payment source the charge stabilizes instead of you getting charged more cause you have insurance. They are talking about caps on reimbursement so ALL insurance will pay the same amount. If you want better insurance to pay over the cap then buy one that does. Hell that might be the one you have now for all I know.

Feds won't be making healthcare decisions for you. Hell accountants are making those decisions now. Aren't you in the insurance business - don't you know how this works? Who will be in charge? Your doctor and outcome guidelines based on what works not what is cheapest. Cost containment is a big part of this but that doesn't mean less care. Insurance companies have convinced people that the more they pay the better the care - data and research just doesn't support that but once people grab on to that they would rather get less care for more money that get better care for less money. Indoctrination is a very powerful thing.

I don't want my healthcare to be in the care of business any longer. It's been there long enough and it has just about broken this country and the great healthcare we are capable of doing is swept under the carpet cause business men are saying no so they can make the profit they feel they deserve for being so smart. How business ever wrestled healthcare away from the healthcare givers is beyond me - but I think it has something to do with - Psssst, have I got a deal for you!

[Highwayman]

How would a 17% burden on EVERYONE be more of a burden on the wealthy? 17% across the board is no more a burden on someone making $20,000 a year as it is to someone making $120,000 a year, other than the person making less still has to live with MUCH less in this society that has a very high cost of living expense. Seems the wealthy would still be getting a better deal. Poor rich people. They are so worried about losing their clout.

The basic idea of a flat tax has all deductions and loopholes are eliminated. Top earners may have a lower tax rate than before but without the deductions and loopholes the total tax amount ends up being more. At the lower end a large exemption keeps the total tax on middle class earners lower than what they might currently gain by itemizing deductions.

Extra - WSJ.com

[Highwayman]

This is my issue as well. To me, this is the result of the "trickle down" theory of Ronald Regan. I don't know about everyone else, but I don't see much trickling down. I see the rich getting richer and the middle class getting poorer. If people have the attitude that people should be able to make whatever they want and keep all they can, then the rich will keep as much from trickling down as they can. If the middle class defend that value then what do we expect. We are going to be carrying the load.

Trickle down economics simplified.

Your boss gets hit with a big tax increase. He fires you so he can use your salary to pay the taxes.

Your boss gets a tax cut and you get to keep your job and if you’re lucky you might get a raise.

[KONQ RADIO]

Economics simplified.

Money stays in the private sector and is used for PROgress.
Money goes to the government and is spent by CONgress.

[Highwayman]

...Feds won't be making healthcare decisions for you.....

You don’t know that and you can’t know that because the bill isn’t written yet. And when it is written Congress won’t read it first and we won’t get the chance to read it either.

Outcome guidelines are all about making those decisions for you. One size doesn’t fit all in medicine.

You mat not trust business but many of us trust the government even less.

[ksgrainman]

Trickle down economics simplified.

Your boss gets hit with a big tax increase. He fires you so he can use your salary to pay the taxes.

Your boss gets a tax cut and you get to keep your job and if you’re lucky you might get a raise.

Exactly. Who the hell do you all think employs the masses? It damn sure isn't the welfare people. I don't know what it takes for some to get beyond the politics of things and start thinking realistic about things that do with economics. Unless you totally believe in Socialism, you have to understand that we need real employment, and gov't is NOT the answer. Why would anybody not want to be rich? Is beening poor better? NO

If more time and energy and MONEY were spent on stressing the importance of succeeding, and LESS time spent worrying about 'who has what I don't have' we will all be better off. The more 'rich' people we have the better. DO NOT fall into this dumbing of America we are going through for last 6 + months. It won't work.

STOP this insane "VICTIM" mentality ,that Oprah and Dr. Phil spew, and let's get this Country hopping again. WAY too much time was spent worrying about a used up singer, and not enough on the real probs. Grainy

[BroncoFan]

Just to clarify, Medicare is for those over 65. We all prepay our Medicare as we work to have that available when you hit 65.

Funny that I know several people that have Medicare (not medicaid) that are not even close to 65. They paid in until they were considered fully disabled. This is just one of the false "facts" that get passed around too much. Yes, Medicare is not just for those over 65.

As for the rich, I will turn a blind ear toward those that wish to continue to spread the wealth. That, too will trickle down to those of us who aren't wealthy, in one way or another.

[TexKan]

You don’t know that and you can’t know that because the bill isn’t written yet. And when it is written Congress won’t read it first and we won’t get the chance to read it either.

Outcome guidelines are all about making those decisions for you. One size doesn’t fit all in medicine.

You mat not trust business but many of us trust the government even less.

I know what has been said, I know outcome measures save money, I know that outcome measures cost less and I know that outcome measures give you the best care.

They are not all about making decisions for you - another fallacy that you have swallowed like a fish.

Outcome measure isn't all about one size fits all. It's about best practice. There will always be variances and outlyers.

I don't trust business - they don't know a damn thing other than how much they can avoid paying for. I have seen "business" run health care for over 30 years. On this subject I will put my experience up against your propaganda.

I have no issues with outcome measures - in fact that's a part of quality that I do.

I respect your desire to have some accountant tell you what your healthcare should be - but as for me - I voted for something different.

[DCFan]

Well, we all have reasons for the way we feel. And it's good to know I'm not alone in wanting to keep government out of it.

Let me tell you a story about a man I knew. He was a hard worker. Nice guy most of the time. Thought he'd retire at his job. Bad investments made his employer go bankrupt. Lost his job. Found a new one. Paid a little less, bennies suck. Moved to another town with job. Bought home and settled in. Lost job. Couldn't afford Cobra, so went bare. Found out he had cancer. Cancer treatment very, very expensive. Doctor knew he had no medical insurance and offered to help him get on public assistance. Nope, guy said - I don't want a handout. Doc tried to get him into another program. Nope. Don't wanna handout. Doc treated him anyway, probably not as aggressively, though. Guy died. And bills died with him. So, I had to think about it. Are there other folks out there counted among the uninsured that really don't think they need it? If there is a government-run health care option, will those folks that don't feel they need it still pay into it? So who will we be cheating? Forcing folks to buy something they really don't want? And probably won't use or will use recklessly?

That's where I believe the numbers are skewed. Lots of crap is being thrown around. I agree, we need to get a handle on insurance company greed. Some are good, some are really, really bad. Most pay well and by the contract. Others don't. THAT'S what the problem is. Insurance needs to get back to the game of insurance. In most instances, it is, I believe. There are always horror stories to be told. The underlying problem is greed. Folks, we can't fix that with another government program. For the most part, lawmakers have shown to be the most greedy among us. I just can't trust them with my health.

First I want to say that I am very sorry for the loss of your friend.

Now I am a little puzzled by this. He was unwilling to accept benefits that were supported by his hard earned tax dollars, but he was willing to accept free care from the doctor and hospital. That seems like more of a handout than taking the benefit that you help pay for.

If people choose to not have insurance and roll the dice, they are rolling the dice for all of us too. I don't think that it is right that my insurance is more, I pay more at the doctor, and my taxes have to pick up when people choose to roll the dice and lose.

[DCFan]

Funny that I know several people that have Medicare (not medicaid) that are not even close to 65. They paid in until they were considered fully disabled. This is just one of the false "facts" that get passed around too much. Yes, Medicare is not just for those over 65.

As for the rich, I will turn a blind ear toward those that wish to continue to spread the wealth. That, too will trickle down to those of us who aren't wealthy, in one way or another.

I stand corrected on the Medicare. I always think that it is dangerous to turn a blind ear toward anything, and especially with this issue. Economic indicators are showing that the money does not trickle down as people thought. Those who have a lot of wealth assets are increasing. The wages of the middle are going down.