Someone is in your House, which would you rather have, a handgun or a telephone?

[Value Pack]

John Stossel wrote another article and I had to pass this on.. All I can say is that it makes good sense.

John Stossel: People still die in 'gunless utopia'

Don't confuse gun control, crime control.

It's all too predictable. A day after a gunman killed six people and wounded 18 others at Northern Illinois University, The New York Times criticized the U.S. Interior Department for preparing to rethink its ban on guns in national parks.

The editorial board wants "the 51 senators who like the thought of guns in the parks — and everywhere else, it seems — to realize that the innocence of Americans is better protected by carefully controlling guns than it is by arming everyone to the teeth."

As usual, the Times editors seem unaware of how silly their argument is. To them, the choice is between "carefully controlling guns" and "arming everyone to the teeth." But no one favors "arming everyone to the teeth" (whatever that means). Instead, gun advocates favor freedom, choice and self-responsibility. If someone wishes to be prepared to defend himself, he should be free to do so. No one has the right to deprive others of the means of effective self-defense, like a handgun.

As for the first option, "carefully controlling guns," how many shootings at schools or malls will it take before we understand that people who intend to kill are not deterred by gun laws? Last I checked, murder is against the law everywhere. No one intent on murder will be stopped by the prospect of committing a lesser crime like illegal possession of a firearm. The intellectuals and politicians who make pious declarations about controlling guns should explain how their gunless utopia is to be realized.

While they search for — excuse me — their magic bullet, innocent people are dying defenseless.

That's because laws that make it difficult or impossible to carry a concealed handgun do deter one group of people: law-abiding citizens who might have used a gun to stop crime. Gun laws are laws against self-defense.

Criminals have the initiative. They choose the time, place and manner of their crimes, and they tend to make choices that maximize their own, not their victims', success. So criminals don't attack people they know are armed, and anyone thinking of committing mass murder is likely to be attracted to a gun-free zone, such as schools and malls.

Government may promise to protect us from criminals, but it cannot deliver on that promise. This was neatly summed up in a book title a few years ago: "Dial 911 and Die." If you are the target of a crime, only one other person besides the criminal is sure to be on the scene: you. There is no good substitute for self-responsibility.

How, then, does it make sense to create mandatory gun-free zones, which in reality are free-crime zones?

The usual suspects keep calling for more gun control laws. But this idea that gun control is crime control is just a myth. The National Academy of Sciences reviewed dozens of studies and could not find a single gun regulation that clearly led to reduced violent crime or murder. When Washington, D.C., passed its tough handgun ban years ago, gun violence rose.

The press ignores the fact that often guns save lives, like in 2002 at the Appalachian School of Law. Hearing shots, two students went to their cars, got their guns and restrained the shooter until police arrested him.

Likewise, law professor Glen Reynolds writes, "Pearl, Miss., school shooter Luke Woodham was stopped when the school's vice principal took a .45 from his truck and ran to the scene. In (last) February's Utah mall shooting, it was an off-duty police officer who happened to be on the scene and carrying a gun."

It's impossible to know exactly how often guns stop criminals. Would-be victims don't usually report crimes that don't happen. But people use guns in self-defense every day. The Cato Institute's Tom Palmer says just showing his gun to muggers once saved his life.

"It equalizes unequals," Palmer told "20/20." "If someone gets into your house, which would you rather have, a handgun or a telephone? You can call the police if you want, and they'll get there, and they'll take a picture of your dead body. But they can't get there in time to save your life. The first line of defense is you."

John Stossel is co-anchor of ABC News' "20/20." His syndicated column appears Thursdays.

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by Value Pack

The press ignores the fact that often guns save lives, like in 2002 at the Appalachian School of Law. Hearing shots, two students went to their cars, got their guns and restrained the shooter until police arrested him.

This story is often repeated by the those who support "gun rights" but it ignores the incovenient fact that the two students who went to their car and retrieved their guns did not restrain the shooter, he had already been restrained by another unarmed student. (IIRC he was a former soldier or police officer).

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by Outofdodge

This story is often repeated by the those who support "gun rights" but it ignores the incovenient fact that the two students who went to their car and retrieved their guns did not restrain the shooter, he had already been restrained by another unarmed student. (IIRC he was a former soldier or police officer).

You are referring to the disputed Ted Besen version. Here’s some discussion with Mikael Gross, one of the two former police offices that were there with their weapons.

John Lott's website

[Value Pack]

Hopefully, new studies are even as I write this being done. In the meantime here are a few facts from the National Center for Policy Analysis website, which at the time (1992), 31 states had these laws, now its 48.

Major crime fell dramatically in states which have legalized the carrying of concealed handguns, according to the 1992 study at the University of Chicago.

For the first time, researchers analyzed crime statistics for all 3,054 counties in the United States between 1977 and 1992, according to one of the authors of the unpublished study, Professor John Lott.

The study found that:

"-- In the 31 states that now have “concealed right to carry” laws, murders were down, on average, by 8.5 percent.

-- Rapes were down 5 percent and serious assaults by 7 percent.

According to the study, the fall in crime did not result from an increased use of guns, but from potential criminals avoiding confrontations. In fact, criminals apparently shifted to lower-risk offenses, since property crimes increased in those states. Other findings included:

-- The most dramatic falls in murder rates were in areas where the number of women carrying firearms was high.

-- The study found that for every woman who carries a concealed handgun, the murder rate fell by three to four times more than it would have if one more man had carried a concealed gun.

-- If states with concealed handgun bans had allowed them in 1992, about 1,570 murders, 4,177 rapes and more than 60,000 aggravated assaults would have been avoided."

In addition, the researchers found no evidence of an increase in accidental killings or suicides in states with concealed carry laws.

One has to wonder if these shooters knew that they might have been fired back on in a mall, or that the students at these universities had a way to defend themselves, if the shootings would have even taken place?

By the way, thank you for that interesting piece on the Appalachian School of Law, Highwayman.

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by Highwayman

You are referring to the disputed Ted Besen version. Here’s some discussion with Mikael Gross, one of the two former police offices that were there with their weapons.

We can agree to disagree but to my viewpoint the only people disputing the police and witness reports that stated the gunman was overcome before anybody with guns showed up is the two with guns and the gun lobby. Mr. Lott is not exactly a believer in banning firearms ownership and one would expect that link to support the claim.

[Horse]

If I'm going to shoot in my own house, I'd prefer a shotgun over a handgun. Less chance of ricochet... BTW, I have a CCH License.

[wordsmythe]

Everyone knows two things are bad if theya re breaking in... the click clack of a shell going in the chamber and a red dot appearing on their chest.

[banyon]

Hitting the 5, 6, 7 and 8 buttons on the
gunphone fires four .22 caliber rounds
in quick succession.

At first sight it looks like a regular cell phone — same size, same shape, same overall appearance.

But beneath the digital face lies a .22-caliber pistol, a phone gun capable of firing four rounds in quick succession with a touch of the otherwise standard keypad.
The US Department of Homeland Security and the FBI are aware of the device and have instructed baggage screeners to be on the lookout for suspicious mobile phones. This is especially after 9/11.
European law enforcement officials — stunned by the discovery of these deadly decoys — say phone guns are changing the rules of engagement in Europe.

Airport authorities across Europe are implementing systems to X-ray all cell phones

“We find it very, very alarming,” says Wolfgang Dicke of the German Police union. “It means police will have to draw their weapons whenever a person being checked reaches for their mobile phone.”
The FBI, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and the U.S. Customs Service say they’ve been briefed on the new weapons.

“This criminal invention represents a potentially serious threat to law enforcement and the public,” said U.S. Customs Service Commissioner Raymond W. Kelly.
“We received word about these guns last month. We have since alerted our field personnel to be on the lookout for ‘cell phone guns’ at U.S. ports of entry.”

Guns on the Move
These new covert guns were first discovered in October when Dutch police stumbled on a cache during a drug raid in Amsterdam.

In another recent incident a Croatian gun dealer was caught attempting to smuggle a shipment through Slovenia into Western Europe.

Police say both shipments are believed to have originated in Yugoslavia.
Interpol sent out a warning to law enforcement agencies around the world.
European border police and customs officers are at a heightened state of alert at all ports, airports and border crossings.Realistic Appearance

‘If you didn’t know they were guns, you wouldn’t suspect anything,” said Ari Zandbergen, spokesman for the Amsterdam police.

“Only when you have one in your hand do you realize that they are heavier,” says Birgit Heib of the German Federal Criminal Investigation Agency.

The guns are loaded by twisting the phone in half. The .22-caliber rounds fit into the top of the phone under the screen. The lower half, under the keyboard, holds the firing pins. The bullets fire through the antenna by pressing the keypad from numbers five to eight.

Amsterdam police says they are very sophisticated machines constructed inside gutted cell phones which do not light up or operate as real phones.
“These are very difficult to make. We believe experts are involved,” says Zandbergen.


U.S. authorities, including the FBI, ATF, Federal Aviation Administration and the U.S. Customs Service Authority have been supplied detailed information and pictures of these new weapons.

“They’ve been given a heads up,” said Jim Crandall, ATF spokesman.
To date no phone guns have been discovered either in the United States or in the process of being smuggled in, authorities say. But they know it’s only a matter of time.

FAA spokeswoman Rebecca Trexler said airport security officers had been trained to deal with this new threat.

“We don’t want to tell the bad guys exactly what we’re looking for,” she says, “We are trying to stay one step ahead.”Will Affect Travelers

Airport authorities across Europe are implementing systems to X-ray all cell phones, those procedures will likely be followed by airports around the world.
“This is just one more item that we need to pay special attention to because nowadays, of course just about every passenger carries a mobile phone,” says the spokesman for Frankfurt airport security.

Customs officials in the U.S. say their safety procedure has normally been to require travelers to turn their phones on, however that may no longer be enough. Cell phone users will have to be made aware that reaching for their phones in some circumstances could be misinterpreted as a threat by authorities.

Cell Gunphone Discovered - Threat to Security?

[Made in the USA]

When you put that phone up to your ear, make sure you hit the right buttons!

[Highwayman]

I'll pass on the toy phone. This looks interesting however.

YouTube Video