Censoring Science: The Kansas Controversy

[Highwayman]

By Chuck Colson
Monday, August 7, 2006

The headline was positively gleeful. On the website of the left-wing group DefCon this week, we read: “Science Wins the Day in Kansas.”

In fact, just the opposite happened. Science lost in Kansas to zealots who want to keep kids in the dark about the scientific controversy over evolution.

In last week’s school board primary election in Kansas, two conservatives who support teaching the evidence both for and against evolution lost to candidates who oppose such teaching. These losses mean Kansas will now have an anti-science majority: members who want to slam the door on free academic inquiry. .....

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/c...07/2006&page=1

[Detector]

Not surprising, Kansas has never been a promoter of free thinking. In Kansas science is exact. Exactly what you're told it is, be it right or wrong.

What we really have here is the age old battle between church and state. Unfortunately, state has been able to eliminate the competition, or balance, through misinterpretation of our Constitution. The separation of church and state was meant to keep balance not give power to the state. Our education system is a good example of what happens when balance is lost.

Years ago most often schools were simply a local families home and the teachers were members of that family and the community. Politicians didn't like the idea that this promoted free thinking by allowing the teachers to influence students morally. At this time it was the parents choice where they would take their kids for education. They(parents) had the choice as to what influences their kids were exposed to. Politicians saw the opportunity and seized it through bastardizing the Constitution.

They managed to change separation of church and state to mean elimination of church from state.

By eliminating religion as competition in education they now have free run to push their own political agendas on your children. They make the rules period. They tell us what is science and what is not. How many of our life changing advancements in science throughout history started out labeled "cannot be proved scientifically?" This is not the science vs religion our state education system is trying to make it. It is two theories that neither one has yet to be proved.

Our school system has become little more than a political podium. The choice by parents as to how their kids are educated is gone except for the choice of home schooling, and even that is monitored by the state.

This whole screwed up mess reminds me of that Star Trek(the motion picture) movie where Voyager comes back to earth asking "Is this all there is?" "Is this all I am?" It's mission was to learn all there is to learn and bring that information back to the creator. In the end it had learned all with it's scientific limitations and needed to bound with the creator(human) so that it could have the ability to leap beyond logic and continue to evolve and learn through the human ability imagine and believe in what cannot be proved scientifically.

[Turiel]

Its retarded this even comes up.

There is honestly no real honest debate in the scientific community over creationism vs evolution. It has no part because there is no scientific evidence that seriously points in the direction of creationism. Its fine if you want to teach creationism at home or in church, but you must remember, we all belong to a special club, called the USA, and we all pay club dues, called taxes, and in the pesky club handbook, called the constition, it calls for separating church and state, which means no religion where government, and government funding is involved.
And the "this is just a theory" arguement is dumb as well. Most things in science are "theories". But we must teach them in order to gain a basic understanding of scientific criteria. The idea that the earth revolves around the sun is also a theory, which is also contradicted by the bible, perhaps we should teach both? *sarcasm*

[cky]

agreed. they say they want to teach the "other side of the story" but it's not even the same ballgame. these people bitching havent even been in the schools to see how evolution IS being taught, they really have no idea, they just want something to bitch about.

[Detector]

First Turiel let me welcome you to DodgeBoard.

I do agree this whole debate is silly but then I think it has more to do with which side of the fence you stand.

Yes both are simply theories but both do have evidence to support those theories. The problem is one side refuses to except the others evidence.

Personally, my belief differs from either but let look at creationism from the more popular view. So we have this historical document, and yes the bible is a historical document like it or not, that says god created man. Because this particular claim has no evidence to back it up, nor disprove it, doesn't make the rest of the document false.

There are many other claims in the same document that have been scientifically shown to be fact. The great flood, for example, has been proved as an actual event. Not on the scale in the document, but on a scale that peoples of the time would have recorded it as such. Also many names referenced have been proved to be real as well as the events written.

You must remember that these two theories were written in completely different states of the human ability to understand it's surroundings. Some 2000 years ago lightning was thought to be the results of angry gods. Of course now we understand what causes lightning, but the fact remains that the reference to it, and what it did, is real. Many of the bibles writings have unbelievable explanations that science can now dispute, but, science has also proved most have are based on actual events and only their inability to explain them scientifically 2000 years ago makes them different.

Just as this document has made claims we now know as false so has the theory of evolution had it's own false claims. In my opinion both are nothing but theories and as such deserve equal attention by science. The real issue here is that the oldest theory and document has it's roots in religion and so the anti-religious have deemed it garbage and not appropriate for the science class.

I believe the real reason is they fear this theory.

Myself, I prefer the alien theory which is actually a combination of both popular theories. I believe life is far too complicated to be explained by the single cell in a mud pond theory. I believe life came to earth from elsewhere. Be it on the cosmic winds by chance or intended by a higher intelligence I couldn't say, but again, going back some 2000+ years, and with a limited ability to understand it's surroundings, It's not hard to understand where the god theory possibly came from. As such, one must evaluate the possibility that in that time of human thought the god theory could be valid. Perhaps they were aware of events in the beginning of man that we are not, and god was their way of relaying it.

Now about the "separation of Church and State" misconception. I am at a loss as to how this gets so easily spun to mean something obviously not what our founding fathers meant. Go back in time and remember why America came to be in the first place. Look at the very motto's written to represent what America stands for by the same signers of the constitution. Look at the public offices, especially the white house, and see all the religious references.

Now tell me, do you honestly believe our founding fathers meant "no religion in state."

[Bubba]

What motto's do you refer to?

In the Pledge of Allegiance, where it says one nation under god? "Under god" wasn't added to the pledge until 1954.

Or maybe the "In God We Trust" that is stamped on all our money? That wasn't added until 1957 I believe.


After more research, it appears that it has been on coins since 1908 and paper currency since 1957.

[Detector]

For the record it was first put on coins in 1863:

In December 1863, the Director of the Mint submitted designs for new one-cent coin, two-cent coin, and three-cent coin to Secretary Chase for approval. He proposed that upon the designs either OUR COUNTRY; OUR GOD or GOD, OUR TRUST should appear as a motto on the coins.

Source:http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-...we-trust.shtml

The Star Spangled Banner was written in 1814 and contains "in God is our trust" a variation of the phrase.

I guess I should have not been so specific to an exact MOTTO. It was more a comment about our forefathers reference to God over and over again in official documents. Point being had they actually meant no church in state, as often misused today, they surely wouldn't have put god or trust in god in any such documents.

Contrary to what is often taught, America was founded by strong believers in Christian principles, most being strong believers in Jesus as Savior. There is convincing evidence for this in much of what has been written to document American history. Unfortunately, there are those who are intent on removing all reference to God from American history. Most books used in public schools have this watered-down version of our history.

The fact that so many high school and college students graduate with little or no knowledge of American history is testament to the fact that these references are an integral part of America's past and its history can be neither completely nor properly told without them.

The phrase "separation of church and state" does not appear in the Constitution, but rather is derived from a letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a group identifying themselves as the Danbury Baptists. In that letter, Jefferson uses the term "wall of separation between church and state" to show the Danbury Baptists that in both Connecticut and the entire United States, religious freedom is an inalienable right that government cannot take away.

Some interesting facts:

Christian references in and on historical and government buildings

• The rotunda of the U.S. Capitol contains four paintings: two prayer meetings, a Bible study and a baptism.
• There are references to God at the Washington Monument, the Lincoln Memorial, the National Archives, Senate and House office buildings, the U.S. Supreme Court, the Jefferson Memorial, and the Library of Congress.
• The Library of Congress contains a bronze statue of Moses holding The Ten Commandments, plus other Biblical paintings and quotations, such as: "The heavens declare the glory of God".
• The National Archives contains a bronze medallion with The Ten Commandments on it.
• The Senate and House office buildings contain a plaque that says "In God we trust"
• In the U.S. Supreme Court building, the Ten Commandments are inscribed above the judge's courtroom bench.

The Washington Monument

On the aluminum cap atop the monument, two words are displayed: Laus Deo. They can't be seen from the ground and most people don't even know they are there. They overlook the 69 square miles which comprise the District of Columbia, capital of the United States of America.

Two words placed at the highest point over what is the most powerful city in the most successful nation in the world. These words are latin for "Praise be to God!" From the top of this granite and marble structure, visitors can easily see the original plan of the designer, Pierre Charles l'Enfant...a perfect cross imposed upon the landscape - with the White House to the north, the Jefferson Memorial to the south, the Capitol to the east and the Lincoln Memorial to the west. A cross? What about separation of church and state? Separation of church and state was never, and is not now, in the Constitution.

The Christian heritage of our institutions of learning

Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly Christian.

The first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636, required that students seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the Scriptures. For over 100 years, more than 50% of all Harvard graduates were pastors.

Now again I ask, honestly, does this sound like a nation whose founding fathers wanted no affiliation with god or religion in government?

[cky]

I could care less which religion the founding fathers were - who lived 230 years ago. Does that mean that Christianity needs to be a part of this country for eternity because a lot of "the founding fathers" were Christian and we have to follow in their footsteps? Huh? Nooo way.

"Just as this document has made claims we now know as false so has the theory of evolution had it's own false claims. In my opinion both are nothing but theories and as such deserve equal attention by science. "


You're comparing the SCIENTIFIC theory of evolution to creation story of the Bible? What? You are whacked out! Creationism is not a theory, it's a idea, it has no science behind it. Whenever you introduce a deity into a theory it is NO LONGER a SCIENTIFIC theory. It is theology or philosophy which does not belong in a Biology classroom, it belongs in a world religions classroom. I'm pretty sure every damned kid in Bio class has had creationism pounded into their head 100x more than evolution theory. Balance my ass.


Yes, evolution is a theory that has changed over time but that's how science works. And with the aliens...even if aliens put us here...where the hell did THEY come from? Same questions arise obviously.

"The real issue here is that the oldest theory "

Older, not oldest. Christianity is not the oldest religion to include creationism. Older theory does not a better theory make, probably the opposite. Remember, evolution is not atheistic.

"I believe the real reason is they fear this theory."

Mmm..k? lol

[Detector]

While I won't bother to comment on your belief that what our founding fathers thought 230 years ago is irrelevant today, I'll leave everyone to draw their own conclusions, I will add further thoughts about the state of America.

I see Americans headed back to where we started. America is the results of people who had had enough of being told what they can and can't do, and when or where they can or can't do it, in spite of the majority's approval. America seems to be becoming not the land of the free but a land governed under a monarchy of a few who believe they know whats best for Americans.

Take the smoking ban for example. It's not enough that these people feel the need to control what others, within their general area, can and can't do, but also control their actions in place they have no plans to visit. If they had their way smoking would be baned period. Land of the free my ass.

It's the same with religion. These people want to control the actions of others regardless of what the majority want. As these people make their way back into the powerful positions they once held the freedom of Americans dwindles.

You're comparing the SCIENTIFIC theory of evolution to creation story of the Bible? What? You are whacked out! Creationism is not a theory, it's a idea, it has no science behind it.

the-o-ry

An assumption based on limited information or knowledge; a conjecture.

I don't see the word science anywhere in this definition. Fact is, science has found evidence supporting claims in the bible so the bible not only can be scientifically tested, but has been. The destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, an account from the bible, has been proved to be based on fact. As I said earlier, the account of the great flood has also been scientifically tested and found to have evidence supporting the event.

[cky]

Originally Posted by Detector

If they had their way smoking would be baned period. Land of the free my ass.

Stop using ambiguous terms like "they" and grouping people together into categories such as "they", things are not that simple in reality. If they refers to anti-smoking nazi's then maybe you're right however we're not really talking about "them", we're talking about people in general and in many cities the majority of voters display what the majority wants whether it's what you think is right or not. I guess the majority of people are probably wacky anti-smoking nazi's in Detector Land*.

Originally Posted by Detector

It's the same with religion. These people want to control the actions of others regardless of what the majority want.

The majority represents people in general, and people in general are afraid of health problems-so they vote for smoking bans. People in general are also afraid of gay people being married - so they ban gay marriage. You are right in that respect, religious people DO try to control other people's lives, even in ways that do not affect their own which is much different than smoking for obvious reasons (smoke invites itself over, lesbians don't...well in Detector's case anyway).

Moving along,

Detector, you should be happy to know that gravity is a theory just like evolution, it is a scientific theory. Scientific theories are not hypthoses (i.e. Biblical creation). PLEASE learn the difference. Read on...

"In science, a theory is a proposed description, explanation, or model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the current theory of gravitation."



History has been connected to the Bible, I think it's pretty obvious that people wrote the Bible during the times connected with these historical events. But let's say I wrote some letters to some duderino I know and said that a pink unicorn created the universe by taking a magical crap (because things like this are still accepted in this age (hypothetically)) - and then included some stuff about say the United States and Korea and Kim Jong Il and whoever else. Then a few thousand years from now some gullible schmuck picks this stuff and thinks it's real because I placed some stuff in there that's historically accurate.

Just because the things in the Bible are connected to real events does-in no way shape or form- give ANY credibilty to creationism, and if you think it does you need to check into the mental institution or go back to 3rd grade to learn a few things from the kids who are, by comparison, geniuses.



*Not a theme park.