Healthcare...

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by TexKan

I wouldn't mind a little Tri Care for any of my family!

The problem with Tri-Care is that it has not kept pace with the institutional providers' cost and it's payment rules are even more restrictive than the rules it places on the beneficiaries. The net result is it is not worth it to be a provider in some markets. The non-profit church owned system I now work for will not contract with them and they are not unique.

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by Outofdodge

What do you think of your government healthcare?

I'm not sure because I don't have all the information I need to really have an opinion that I could back strongly either way. I have feelings and ideas. Of course some of my conservative leanings drive some of those feelings. I do think society is better off with more people than not having health care. I do think the "healthcare system"..whatever that may be (and something I know nothing about) like most things could be made to work better. One question is responsibility...WHO's responsibility is it to make sure a family has healthcare? Is it that families responsibility or is it the governments responsibility to provide for the family and if so at who's expense? Many people don't have healthcare because they choose to not pay for it..(yes it's expensive) but they eat out, drive nice cars etc...because healthcare is one of those intangibles that you don't need...until you need it..lol. Detector said he doesn't like competition but I believe competition is what keeps prices lower...simplified. I know there is much, much more to it than that. I think drug prices are out of line. Sherry commented on DR's making their "ching-ching" but actually don't they accept less from insurance companies than what they actually charge for a service? I try to find a big gov't program that is run effeciently and effectively and I can't come up with one. I'm not sure I would want Uncle Sugar running my healthcare. Canada has socialized healthcare and one of the highest tax rates in the world. People that are attracted to socialized health care are the poor and sick... If you force all to enroll in the system..once again you are robbing from those that work and giving to those that don't. People with lower income are predominately higher health risks and cost more $$. In Canada if you don't want to wait in line and want to get your own service...it is illegal. I don't have an answer and I believe that the health care system needs to be fixed....but I don't think social medicine is it...and once we go down that road there is no turning back.

[Army_of_One]

The Costs of Free Care

The first thing to realize is that free public medicine isn't really free. What the consumer doesn't pay, the taxpayer does, and with a vengeance. Public health expenditures in Quebec amount to 29 per cent of the provincial government budget. One-fifth of the revenues come from a wage tax of 3.22 per cent charged to employers and the rest comes from general taxes at the provincial and federal levels. It costs $1,200 per year in taxes for each Quebec citizen to have access to the public health system. This means that the average two-child family pays close to $5,000 per year in public health insurance. This is much more expensive than the most comprehensive private health insurance plan.
Although participating doctors may not charge more than the rates reimbursed directly to them by the government, theoretically they may opt out of the system. But because private insurance for basic medical needs isn't available, there are few customers, and less than one per cent of Quebec doctors work outside the public health system. The drafting of virtually all doctors into the public system is the first major consequence of legally forbidding private insurers from competing with public health insurance.

The second consequence is that a real private hospital industry cannot develop. Without insurance coverage, hospital care costs too much for most people. In Quebec, there is only one private for-profit hospital (an old survivor from the time when the government would issue a permit to that kind of institution) but it has to work within the public health insurance system and with government-allocated budgets.

The monopoly of basic health insurance has led to a single, homogeneous public system of health care delivery. In such a public monopoly, bureaucratic uniformity and lack of entrepreneurship add to the costs. The system is slow to adjust to changing demands and new technologies. For instance, day clinics and home care are underdeveloped as there exist basically only two types of general hospitals: the non-profit local hospital and the university hospital.

When Prices Are Zero

Aside from the problems inherent in all monopolies, the fact that health services are free leads to familiar economic consequences. Basic economics tells us that if a commodity is offered at zero price, demand will increase, supply will drop, and a shortage will develop.
During the first four years of hospitalization insurance in Quebec, government expenditures on this program doubled. Since the introduction of comprehensive public health insurance in 1970, public expenditures for medical services per capita have grown at an annual rate of 9.4 per cent. According to one study, 60 per cent of this increase represented a real increase in consumption.1

There has been much talk of people abusing the system, such as using hospitals as nursing homes. But then, on what basis can we talk of abusing something that carries no price?

At zero price, no health services would be supplied, except by the government or with subsidies. Indeed, the purpose of a public health system is to relieve this artificial shortage by supplying the missing quantities. The question is whether a public health system can do it efficiently.

As demand rises and expensive technology is introduced, health costs soar. But with taxes already at a breaking point, government has little recourse but to try to hold down costs. In Quebec, hospitals have been facing budget cuts both in operating expenses and in capital expenditures. Hospital equipment is often outdated, and the number of general hospital beds dropped by 21 per cent from 1972 to 1980.

The most visible consequence of socialized medicine in Canada is in the poor quality of services. Health care has become more and more impersonal. Patients often feel they are on an assembly line. Doctors and hospitals already have more patients than they can handle and no financial incentive to provide good service. Their customers are not the ones who write the checks anyway.

[TexKan]

same way the capped the airline and telephone monopolies........... I just think it's wrong.........

I do altho believe we can learn from any horror story that has been written about socialized healthcare - learn from them, not repeat the same mistake and possibly come up with a program that folks could write about with praise and gee this works!!!................ If we have so many Negatives already written............. who the hell would want to have a program fashioned after one that doesn't work.............. good thing that others have tried it out............ that altho doesn't mean it won't work............. we just need to do it differently than they do to make it work. ............ it's the American way and we should care for our elderly and chronically ill - health care in this country is dismal at best for those with no money. Folks don't just wake up one day and say................ I wanna be poor............... I do altho think we as a society should care for and about our fellow humans........... especially if they are Americans.............. screw the non americans they didn't work here for the bennie.................

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by TexKan

same way the capped the airline and telephone monopolies........... I just think it's wrong.........

The airlines for the most part don't make a lot of money with the exception of a couple of well run airlines. The break up of the phone company was a COMPANY. YOU are talking about a persons salary...CEO. Do you think the gov't should be able to CAP someone's salary? If the company (board members, share holders that are also making money..usually) votes to give the guy that money why would you think the gov't should cap it? If they think he's worth it why shouldn't he get it? How would you feel if the gov't stepped in and capped nurses salaries? You make what the market will pay you...unless you get minimum wage then it's set by the gov't.

[TexKan]

That's just how I think............ If I made more than the national debt............... yeah i wouldn't get upset over the capp. it's the age old have and have nots.............. I'm not impressed by the greed of the haves............

I make and have made more than a few and have made less than some and many......... but we aren't talkin national debt numbers............... The profit margines of the health and insurance companies is sinful............ no one needs to be that greedy.......... they market to the "haves"........... I just find that distasteful when some one needs healthcare it shouldn't depend on how well they planned, if they are college educated, if they have a good job - all that stuff is just wrong...........

[Sherry_Giskie]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

Really? Perhaps you should live in Africa or the Middle East for a couple of months.....then you will understand sad....

At least people in those countries have heart! America is full of greed and heartache! If America had more people with a conscience we would be a much better country!

[Sherry_Giskie]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

Well...name one business or person that is a not for profit organization that isn't in business for the "ching-ching".

I know of a doctor in Liberal actually that does help a LOT of people! He allows patients to come into the office and doesn't charge them for the office visit because he knows they can't afford both the visit and the medications! He allowed me to come into his office when I was urinating blood and was very helpful and because I didn't have insurance at the time, he lowered the fee for the office visit~!!! I know there are some of these doctors out there, I just wish there were more! He may not be the most successful doctor, but he sure does have a place in my heart!

[TexKan]

I know a doctor like that in Dodge........... and he's quite successful................ not always popular but is successful....

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by Sherry_Giskie

At least people in those countries have heart! America is full of greed and heartache! If America had more people with a conscience we would be a much better country!

Yes.. the people in Rwanda and Darfur have much heart. For example the killing of about 800,000 people in 3 months in Rwanda is all about heart...nothing to do with greed. What is greed? We live in a somewhat capitalistic society where people try to make money through competition. When people compete there are usually winners and losers. (despite what some schools are teaching now where everyone wins...)