Observations from the CC class

[wordsmythe]

My first thought was that this was a huge waste of a Saturday. If it wasn't a hoop to jump through for my license I'd never have taken it. Nothing in it was new except the law that we covered.

Covering the laws that govern the license and the legal ramifications of carrying a gun with you and using it were very important but could have been done in an hour.

The basics are good to review but I could have passed the written test without ever taking the class.

Then the next thought I had was for the 2 women sitting next to me. That thought was HOLY CRAP THEY NEED THE BASICS! They needed them because they both said that they had never even picked up a gun until they went to the range to qualify.

That being the case I think they need some more time with an actual pistol instructor before they are let loose on society armed.

So I can see the need for a little longer course. I think they both were reconsidering going through with the entire process but who knows.

Then when we went over the section for where you can’t carry several people asked what the use was in even getting the damned license if we are going to spend more time taking the thing off and storing it than actually carrying.

I think the answer to that is simple. The more people who are willing to jump through these hoops, take the class, pay the money and put up with the restrictions – the more legislators are going to see this is something people really want and are able to handle safely and responsibly. Then we can work on getting some of the restrictions relaxed.

The businesses who are putting up the signs will see the same thing.

I’m seriously considering building a website for people to list both businesses that are CC friendly and also those who are criminal friendly. On each entry I’d link information about each business so that people may contact them to express their opinion about the current status of their business’ response to CC.

I’d also have some sample letters on there that could be personalized by people so that they can send messages to these businesses.

Another important part would be a link to a “Find your Legislator” function so that people can contact their legislators and let them know how they feel about the subject.

An interesting tidbit I heard in the class was that the families of the victims in the Mall shootings that happened a few weeks ago were banding together to sue the owners of that mall for their part in the deaths of their loved ones. The premise of the suit is that since they had “NO CC” signs up that nobody but the police could bring guns into the building. By doing that, the establishment is taking responsibility for the safety of their patrons upon themselves since they have taken their right to protect themselves.

If the cop who was in the building hadn’t had his gun with him at the time and made the killer go to ground he would likely have killed even more innocent bystanders before the uniformed officers got there. Had this guy been facing 5 armed citizens hw would likely have only got off a couple of shots.

I say sue away.

Anyway those were some of my observations.

The funniest part was at lunch. I went to McDonald’s to get some processed chicken parts and I saw that they had “My Little Pony” Happy Meals. Well my daughter is VERY into the ponies now so I thought I’d get one for the toy. They have t 6 nugget meal and that’s generally what I get anyway. But as I’m about to order it, in walks the rest of the class…

I decided that saying, “I’d like the big kids nugget Happy Meal with the Pony toy to eat here.” might just not work…

I took her to get her own toy on Sunday.

[NoLongerInRadioGuy]

I can understand why a citizen would want to carry concealed in certain situations. As long as the training is there, and is proven to be effective, I say go for it. A couple questions I have though, since I have not taken the class, nor do I need to...

Did they touch on the topic of when you approached by law enforcement? Like, if you are pulled over and have a gun concealed (or even un-concealed for that matter), to tell the officer right away about it and not make any moves to get it unless instructed? You might have taken the class and have your license with you showing you are allowed to carry, but be prepared for an officer to be a little on edge when you mention a gun to them.

What about when and when not to act? Like on a situational basis? Officers go through a lot more than a saturday's worth of training on shooting and gun care. We are also trained that people make much better witnesses than victims. There are many stories of officers or security guards or people allowed to carry concealed that think they become Harry BadA** when they have a glock in their pocket. Seeing a possible armed robbery in progress is not a reason to pull out a gun and try to intervene. All that is going to do escalate the situation. When law enforcement is called to something like this, you wont see one lone cop go running in with his gun drawn - we have plans in place on how to handle situations.

Finally - is there any kind of requalification? Or is it a life long permit to carry a gun? I would think I would want people to prove their proficiency with any gun they might carry. That is how we do it. We cant carry any weapon on or off duty unless we have passed the range training first to show we can shoot it accurately. I would hate to see someone who knows nothing about guns qualify for their license on a lil .22 then later buy a .45 and think they shoot the same.

[Army_of_One]

I think continued training and qualification with your weapon should be essential. In the Army we have to qualify (unless you are recruiter then you qualify with a ball point pen...) twice a year with all weapons that we use. I think training and learning should be an ongoing thing.

[wordsmythe]

Originally Posted by NoLongerInRadioGuy

I can understand why a citizen would want to carry concealed in certain situations. As long as the training is there, and is proven to be effective, I say go for it. A couple questions I have though, since I have not taken the class, nor do I need to...

Did they touch on the topic of when you approached by law enforcement? Like, if you are pulled over and have a gun concealed (or even un-concealed for that matter), to tell the officer right away about it and not make any moves to get it unless instructed? You might have taken the class and have your license with you showing you are allowed to carry, but be prepared for an officer to be a little on edge when you mention a gun to them.

What about when and when not to act? Like on a situational basis? Officers go through a lot more than a saturday's worth of training on shooting and gun care. We are also trained that people make much better witnesses than victims. There are many stories of officers or security guards or people allowed to carry concealed that think they become Harry BadA** when they have a glock in their pocket. Seeing a possible armed robbery in progress is not a reason to pull out a gun and try to intervene. All that is going to do escalate the situation. When law enforcement is called to something like this, you wont see one lone cop go running in with his gun drawn - we have plans in place on how to handle situations.

Finally - is there any kind of requalification? Or is it a life long permit to carry a gun? I would think I would want people to prove their proficiency with any gun they might carry. That is how we do it. We cant carry any weapon on or off duty unless we have passed the range training first to show we can shoot it accurately. I would hate to see someone who knows nothing about guns qualify for their license on a lil .22 then later buy a .45 and think they shoot the same.

When approached by the police a permit holder is not required to declare they are such. When asked they have to be honest and confirm they are a permit holder and we were told NOT to reach for it but tell where we are carrying. Then we were told that we would likely be patted down and the police would remove the weapon until everything is sorted out.

As far as when and when not to act the instructor said that's going to be situational. Since you have the right to use your gun to protect another person you can do so but you should be certain of the situation. She also reminded us that the permit does NOT make you a law enforcement officer or a bounty hunter. She went over what can happen to you if you get it wrong and damage property, injure or kill an innocent bystander. She emphasized that we shouldn't start walking our dog on the east side of Topeka at 3 in the morning just because we have a gun.

As far as requalifying... they haven't sorted that out yet. The permit is good for 4 years and there is a fee listed to renew but they have about 3 years to decide how that's all going to work so they aren't there yet.

[wordsmythe]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

I think continued training and qualification with your weapon should be essential. In the Army we have to qualify (unless you are recruiter then you qualify with a ball point pen...) twice a year with all weapons that we use. I think training and learning should be an ongoing thing.

The state suggests that if you are a permit holder that you should shoot a MINIMUM of 100 rounds a month in practice. The instructor said that's WAY too few if you are talking about carrying regularly.

[TexKan]

I think once ya'll get used to your newfound "freedom" - it won't be such a big deal. PS - I don't tell officers of my gun - no need - cause they never have asked. Down here they just say - uh OK.

In fact that's what Ks State Trooper said too -uhhhhhhh "OK" ....... son told him he had a weapon in the door - (which usually opens the door to - why? which opens the door to "I'm an officer" - which ususally results in a courtesy warning)..... didn't seem such a big deal to the trooper that pulled us over outside of Dodge. I do altho keep my hand on the wheel if pulled over cause I don't want some other mother's son wonderin bout his safety. It's just a polite thing to do.

[Highwayman]

Good post Wordy and you’re right that as time passes folks will find the new law isn’t going to cause the problems that some imagine. If you are looking at building a website there’s one in Colorado that might give you some ideas.

RMGO - Home

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by NoLongerInRadioGuy

Officers go through a lot more than a saturday's worth of training on shooting and gun care.

Maybe in Kansas they do but....

NEWS - US NATIONAL - Comcast.net

[TexKan]

Now that's some scary stuff!

[Made in the USA]

I started shooting when I was 5 years old. My Dad taught me well, and I have enjoyed hunting all my life. I taught all of my kids proper firearm saftey, and there is no one that I would rather hunt with than my kids. Unfortunately, I taught my ex's to shoot too---------that was a mistake!