Go Back   DodgeBoard.com - Forums > Chit Chat > Longbranch Saloon
Home Forums Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Longbranch Saloon This is a special area for hot topics, duels and heated discussions. WARNING- Enter at your own risk. This is a free-fire zone.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 04-11-2007, 11:00 PM
Highwayman's Avatar
DodgeBoard Senior VP
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: God's country
Posts: 4,825
Casino Cash: $30700
Rep Power: 1797
Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!
Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!
Flawed Laws Help Stalkers Victimize Women

By John Lott and Sonya Jones

What do you do when the police can’t protect you? Police may be the single most important factor for reducing crime, but there is something the police themselves understand: They almost always arrive at the crime scene after the crime has occurred.

Expecting people to trust the police to protect them and to behave passively is a recipe for disaster.

The last couple of weeks have seen a couple prominent murders where restraining orders did women little good. Numerous news organizations, such as ABC News, have run headlines asking "How Do You Stop a Stalker From Killing You?"

Unfortunately, despite acknowledging that "many women find themselves on their own," the media are drawing the wrong lessons. To simply advise that women "Get the hell away him" often doesn't go anywhere near far enough.

With her tragic murder on Monday on the campus of the University of Washington, Rebecca Griego learned this the hard way. Twice she had filed for restraining orders against her abusive and physically violent former boyfriend, Jonathan Ghulam-Nabi Rowan, but the police didn’t know where he lived and could never serve him.

It wasn’t like they didn’t try, for in January they couldn’t even locate Rowan for an outstanding warrant for a drunk driving conviction.

Rowan made Rebecca’s life hell. In police reports as well as her request for a restraining order, she described Rowan as a “suicidal alcoholic” who had “punched,” “slammed,” and “thrown” her to the ground.

To no avail, she moved a couple of times and changed her cell phone number. Nevertheless, on March 7th and 14th, Rowan called her at work, threatening both her and her dog. He then called and threatened Rebecca’s older sister.

But restraining orders often aren't worth the paper on which they're written, even when they are served.

For a stalker intent on killing his victim or committing suicide after the attack, the penalty for violating a restraining order is irrelevant. With Seattle police's response time of seven minute for the highest-priority emergency calls, the police simply can't be there to protect you even with a restraining order. Seven minutes can seem like an eternity.

With such rampant failures in the system, there is one piece of advice that could have saved Rebecca’s life: self-defense, get a gun.

Indeed, the University of Washington goes in the opposite direction and tries to protect people by declaring the campus a “gun free zone,” with the school’s code of conduct banning the “possession or use of firearms . . . except for authorized university purposes.”

Gun free zones may be well intentioned, but good intentions that is not enough. It is an understandable desire to ban guns. After all, if you ban guns from an area, people can’t get shot, right? But time after time when these public shootings occur, they disproportionately take place in gun free zones.

It is the law-abiding good citizens who would only use a gun for protection who obey these bans. Violating a gun free zone at a place such as a public university may mean expulsion or firing and arrest, real penalties for law-abiding citizens. But for someone intent on killing others, adding on these penalties for violating a gun free zone means little to someone who, if still alive, faces life in prison.

Unfortunately, instead of gun free zones ensuring safety for victims, ensuring that the victims are unarmed only makes things safer for attackers.

One of us conducted research with Bill Landes at the University of Chicago that examined all the multiple-victim public shootings in the United States from 1977 to 1999. We found that when states passed right-to-carry laws, these attacks fell by 60 percent. Deaths and injuries from multiple-victim public shootings fell on average by 78 percent.

To the extent that attacks still occurred, they overwhelmingly happened in the special places within right-to-carry states where concealed handguns were banned. The University of Washington is a good example of this.

There is no evidence that there are any more accidental gun deaths that occur from right-to-carry laws. Permit holders also tend to be extremely law-abiding.

Ironically, earlier this year University of Washington President Mark Emmert began consideration of making the school’s ban somehow apply to students living off campus as well. Students are sitting ducks on campus, but the change would make them vulnerable off campus as well.

Not only did the gun free zones fail here, but it is extremely unlikely that Rowan could even legally own a gun. As a non-resident alien Rowan needed an alien firearms license to even own a gun, something that rarely granted.

There is an even simpler point to make. It is the physically weakest, women and the elderly, who benefit the most from having a gun to protect themselves. The U.S. Department of Justice's National Crime Victimization Survey has shown for decades that resistance with a gun is by far the safest course of action when one confronts a criminal.

Good intentions don't necessarily make good rules. What counts is whether the rules ultimately save lives. Unfortunately, too many rules primarily disarm law-abiding citizens, not criminals.

*John Lott is the author of the forthcoming book, Freedomnomics and the Dean's visiting Professor at the State University of New York at Binghamton.

Sonya Jones is a lawyer

(Many imbedded links in original post)

John Lott's website
__________________


ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Three groups spend other people's money: children, thieves, and politicians. All three need supervision. —DICK ARMEY

Click here to view Democrat’s comments on Iraq and WMD’s
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2007, 02:00 AM
Made in the USA's Avatar
DodgeBoard President
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: By the "wind & smell", it must be an anus!
Posts: 5,595
Casino Cash: $199700
Rep Power: 1972
Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!
Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!Made in the USA Is off the scale!
Normally, the police cannot do anything about a situation "until a crime has been committed". As the article says, by then it is too late!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2007, 07:39 AM
TexKan's Avatar
DodgeBoard President
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: LaMarque, Texas
Posts: 6,253
Casino Cash: $133158
Rep Power: 1071
TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!
TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!TexKan Is off the scale!
In this case given her status and her obvious law abiding nature - she didn't have a chance anyway. Too bad - she shoulda been packin with or without a permit - just good common sense if ya ask me. Just a sad, sad, story.
__________________
Kicked back in Texas - still payin those Kansas taxes......

The old believe everything, the middle aged suspect everything, the young know everything......... Oscar Wilde
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 04-12-2007, 07:54 AM
TigerEyes's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: The rural ghetto
Posts: 438
Casino Cash: $2100
Rep Power: 340
TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!TigerEyes Is off the scale!
I'm reminded of an episode of "The Simpsons" where Lisa makes a wish that the world would be devoid of guns and other heavy weaponry... and as a result the earth gets taken over by aliens armed with a stick and a bat.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2007, 08:00 PM
BroncoFan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: jetmore
Posts: 396
Casino Cash: $12814
Rep Power: 571
BroncoFan Is off the scale!
BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!
Too bad somone was not carrying a concealed gun today at Virginia Tech. I am really leaning harder on the ability to carry a concealed weapon. Too many people died today, when a good person with a legally concealed weapon could have saved many lives!!!
__________________
*Don't just float though life, Make Waves!*
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2007, 08:11 PM
lurker's Avatar
DodgeBoard Senior VP
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 4,397
Casino Cash: $2470
Blog Entries: 1
Rep Power: 1195
lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!
lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!lurker Is off the scale!
Sadly, that's a good example.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by wordsmythe View Post
Damn YOU for making me agree in public with you.

But when you're right you're right.


"Wal-Mart, you may want to look into this."
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2007, 08:15 PM
BroncoFan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: jetmore
Posts: 396
Casino Cash: $12814
Rep Power: 571
BroncoFan Is off the scale!
BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!
Sorry, DoG, I just feel really sick about it, and if you look at today's campus', there is very little in the way of any real security, much less in the classroom settings.
__________________
*Don't just float though life, Make Waves!*
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2007, 08:16 PM
Highwayman's Avatar
DodgeBoard Senior VP
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: God's country
Posts: 4,825
Casino Cash: $30700
Rep Power: 1797
Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!
Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!Highwayman Is off the scale!
Quote:
Originally Posted by BroncoFan View Post
Too bad somone was not carrying a concealed gun today at Virginia Tech....
There’s a simple reason for that BroncoFan. VA Tech is a gun free zone!

Below is the link to the VA Tech campus police and campus policy on weapons. We’ll never know if someone with a CC could have made a difference because it wasn’t allowed. Apparently the shooter wasn’t aware of the rules.

New Page 1

Quote:
Section V.W. - Weapons
Unauthorized possession, storage, or control of firearms and weapons on university property is prohibited, including storing weapons in vehicles on campus as well as in the residence halls. (Note: organizational weapons of the Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets, approved by the commandant, are not prohibited by this policy.)

Firearms are defined as any gun, rifle, pistol, or handgun designed to fire bullets, BBs, pellets, or shots (including paint balls), regardless of the propellant used. Other weapons are defined as any instrument of combat or any object not designed as an instrument of combat but carried for the purpose of inflicting or threatening bodily injury. Examples include but are not limited to knives with fixed blades or pocket knives with blades longer than 4 inches, razors, metal knuckles, blackjacks, hatchets, bows and arrows, nun chukkas, foils, or any explosive or incendiary device. Possession of realistic replicas of weapons on campus is prohibited. Students who store weapons in residence hall rooms, who brandish weapons, or who use a weapon in a reckless manner may face disciplinary action, which may include suspension or dismissal from the university.

Exceptions to possessing weapons may be made in the case of university functions or activities and for educational exhibitions or displays. Such exceptions will be subject to authorization by the Virginia Tech Police. This policy does not prohibit the possession of firearms by persons, such as law enforcement officers, who are authorized by law to do so in the performance of their duties. A weapons storage program is available. Interested persons should contact the Virginia Tech Police (Sterrett Facilities Complex, 231-6411.
__________________


ΜOΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Three groups spend other people's money: children, thieves, and politicians. All three need supervision. —DICK ARMEY

Click here to view Democrat’s comments on Iraq and WMD’s
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2007, 08:23 PM
BroncoFan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: jetmore
Posts: 396
Casino Cash: $12814
Rep Power: 571
BroncoFan Is off the scale!
BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!
Yeah, I heard all that today. Hope this will change some of the thinking of those that feel THEY can protect you by making such deadly laws!
__________________
*Don't just float though life, Make Waves!*
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 04-16-2007, 08:25 PM
BroncoFan's Avatar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: jetmore
Posts: 396
Casino Cash: $12814
Rep Power: 571
BroncoFan Is off the scale!
BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!BroncoFan Is off the scale!
Too bad the gunman today didn't adhere to those harmless policies.
__________________
*Don't just float though life, Make Waves!*
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in Technorati
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On






Add to Technorati Favorites

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.2.0 RC5
Copyright DodgeBoard.com