For the Liberals...

[Reddemons54]

Originally Posted by wordsmythe

I won't even bother arguing that and give it to you for the sake of argument.

But the same answer applies. If Monkey boy and his cronies believed that the "intelligence" wasn't so intelligent and they relied on it as rationale for W's War anyway then they are still rotten prick liars or complete idiots.

WOW, incredible! So you want them to go and gather more 'intelligence' when they have it going back to when Hussein got into power? Seems to me like a precedent was set, and instead of wasting time they acted on it, which is what most everyone would do (see Kerry's quote, from 2003, which is AFTER Bush was in office). Its fine if you don't like the guy, I don't particularly like him either, but to act like he acted on a hoax, well thats just plain stupidity.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by wordsmythe

I won't even bother arguing that and give it to you for the sake of argument.

But the same answer applies. If Monkey boy and his cronies believed that the "intelligence" wasn't so intelligent and they relied on it as rationale for W's War anyway then they are still rotten prick liars or complete idiots.

It’s worth noting here that while Democrats claim Bush is an idiot they also claim Bush mislead them. The two Democrats that you supported for president in 2000 and 2004 both claimed WMDs while Bush was still only the governor of Texas. The intelligence reports that Bush was using were provided by a CIA director appointed by Clinton.

Flange; NSA's Warrant-less Wiretaps = Echelon

[TigerEyes]

Originally Posted by wordsmythe

If Monkey boy and his cronies believed that the "intelligence" wasn't so intelligent and they relied on it as rationale for W's War anyway then they are still rotten prick liars or complete idiots.

Oh, that's good... didn't think of that argument before! And they knew the intelligence-gathering organizations had been neglected, but yet they trusted the data produced...

I'd vote more for the idiot thing and throw in a lazy comment as well. Probably just didn't want to go back to raw data and reevaluate what had already been evaluated.

However, excellent argument!!

[wordsmythe]

Originally Posted by Reddemons54

WOW, incredible! So you want them to go and gather more 'intelligence' when they have it going back to when Hussein got into power? Seems to me like a precedent was set, and instead of wasting time they acted on it, which is what most everyone would do (see Kerry's quote, from 2003, which is AFTER Bush was in office). Its fine if you don't like the guy, I don't particularly like him either, but to act like he acted on a hoax, well thats just plain stupidity.

I don't think for a second he acted on a hoax. He started the war for his own reasons and it was planned WAY in advance of his installation.

But more to your point... Are you saying that, in his position, you would start a multi billion dollar war that's cost the lives of countless soldiers and civillians based on intel that you already claim was "dumbed down" by the previous administration? And you wouldn't sped a little time and money making the intelligence gathering tools at your disposal more to your liking before doing it?

hmmmm....

nope doesn't change my answer.

Evil lying prick or complete idiot.

[wordsmythe]

Originally Posted by Highwayman

It’s worth noting here that while Democrats claim Bush is an idiot they also claim Bush mislead them. The two Democrats that you supported for president in 2000 and 2004 both claimed WMDs while Bush was still only the governor of Texas. The intelligence reports that Bush was using were provided by a CIA director appointed by Clinton.

Flange; NSA's Warrant-less Wiretaps = Echelon

once again I'm not claiming he was an idiot. I'm voting for the evil lying prick myself.

[flange]

Originally Posted by aft_lizard01

We will ignore the fact that WMD's have been found, and in somewhat large quantities in Iraq, it's convenient for the news cycle to ignore that or disregard it as un-important. We can also ignore that Abu Nidal, Abu Sayaff and other terrorist notables, even Official State sponsoring of suicide bombers occured inside of IRaq pre-war. We will ignore the fact that Nagin refused a forced evacuation until 24 hours prior to Landfall of Katrina(or that other Hurricanes took even longer to get a response under Clinton). We will also ignore that Scooter was convicted of lying and not the actual crime, (which Fitzy will never actually charge anybody with due to lack of evidence, because the so called under cover agent was never undercover and was proud to say so at social gatherings) , not that Clinton ever did that, we will also ignore that Janet Reno fired each and every one of the Federal Prosecutors when she was in office(98 was the total). See news and history has taught me that it matters that if it's a Democrat in office, because when they are accused of a crime it is nothing but a smear campaign by the Republicans. When it's a Republican in Office he is officially guilty until proven innocent, and if he is innocent it is a cover up.

I'm going to ignore most of this reply and skip straight to the bottom. If you're one of those that believes that all the media outside of Fox News has an overt liberal bias, then this discussion isn't worth my time. The only bias the mainstream media has anymore is an entertainment bias. That's why Anna Nicole Smith was the top story for so long. The media's liberal bias is a myth until you can prove otherwise.

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by flange

The only bias the mainstream media has anymore is an entertainment bias.

You are kidding right? The liberal media has an agenda and it goes WAY beyond getting ratings by airing crap about A.N. Smith.

[flange]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

You are kidding right? The liberal media has an agenda and it goes WAY beyond getting ratings by airing crap about A.N. Smith.

Prove it. Hard-line conservatives make this claim all the time, but I've never seen any kind of real proof. I'll completely agree with the idea that an individual media outlet will have a bias whether it's intentional or not. But the idea that the entire swarm of media (minus Fox News, of course) has an intentional liberal slant is completely ridiculous. So once again, if you're going to make the accusation, then prove it.

[flange]

Originally Posted by Highwayman

Flange; NSA's Warrant-less Wiretaps = Echelon

Assuming that article you posted is accurate, Clinton and Bush should be sharing a prison cell. You know that's the kind of punishment you and I would be facing for breaking the same laws.

I'm not willing to sacrifice my privacy for the illusion of security.

[Reddemons54]

Originally Posted by wordsmythe

I don't think for a second he acted on a hoax. He started the war for his own reasons and it was planned WAY in advance of his installation.

But more to your point... Are you saying that, in his position, you would start a multi billion dollar war that's cost the lives of countless soldiers and civillians based on intel that you already claim was "dumbed down" by the previous administration? And you wouldn't sped a little time and money making the intelligence gathering tools at your disposal more to your liking before doing it?

hmmmm....

nope doesn't change my answer.

Evil lying prick or complete idiot.

Look, I know you all think that Bush's agenda is oil, and I really can't argue that, but I think its a good one to have considering the times we live in. How much time did you want him to take? Enough to have 2-3 more 9-11s? I mean, he acted on the Hurrican relief when it was legal for him to do so, but you blame him for not acting quicker? You can't have it both ways.

Now, back to oil. What happens when oil is so expensive the farmers can't afford to operate their tractors? We get less food, the globe experiences a famine, and, oh, I dunno, lets say 1/6th of the worlds population dies due to this, thats 1 BILLION people!!! So, while life is very important, we have to look at the big picture here people. If we didn't act, and we just let Hussein and his cronies do as they please then who knows how the world would be today, or if we would even have a world today. If you think getting him out of power was bad, then you are a complete idiot.