Wind Energy

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by 88-31-10

The price to build either a coal fired plant or a wind farm are tremendously high. The big difference is the cost of fuel to run each plant. One is free. The other is not.

But look at the cost per megawatt of coal vs wind. Wind turbines are more expensive per megawatt, have a shorter lifespand and high maintenence costs. Aren't wind towers subsidized by the gov't? Wind energy is NOT free.

Here are some quotes...

In the MSNBC news story, it was clear that the authors are recommending massive government intervention in support of further wind energy development in the U.S.—building some 225,000 windmills at an initial taxpayer cost of $338 billion and an annual maintenance cost—at further taxpayer expense—of at least $4 billion per year.

With wind, the cost was estimated at $55.80 MegaWatts/hour. With coal, the cost was estimated at $53.10/MW/h.

[88-31-10]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

But look at the cost per megawatt of coal vs wind. Wind turbines are more expensive per megawatt, have a shorter lifespand and high maintenence costs. Aren't wind towers subsidized by the gov't? Wind energy is NOT free.

Here are some quotes...

In the MSNBC news story, it was clear that the authors are recommending massive government intervention in support of further wind energy development in the U.S.—building some 225,000 windmills at an initial taxpayer cost of $338 billion and an annual maintenance cost—at further taxpayer expense—of at least $4 billion per year.

With wind, the cost was estimated at $55.80 MegaWatts/hour. With coal, the cost was estimated at $53.10/MW/h.

I didn't say wind energy was free. I said the FUEL was free.

I'd be interested to see how the costs you provided are calculated. Specifically the cost to build the infrastructure (capital) and operate and maintain (O&M) it. The cost of fuel is a no brainer.

I think the Grey County Windfarm (~100 MW) employs about 10 people whereas the Holcomb plant (~350 MW) has around 250, so it looks to me like the O&M is gonna be lower at Grey County by a large margin. Not sure of the cost of the build out of the wind farm, but I believe the 1400 MW's proposed at Holcomb are at a cost of 3.2 billion dollars. That comes out to roughtly $2.3 million/MW to build. My hunch says the wind farm doesn't cost that much $/MW to build out.

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by 88-31-10

I didn't say wind energy was free. I said the FUEL was free.

I'd be interested to see how the costs you provided are calculated. Specifically the cost to build the infrastructure (capital) and operate and maintain (O&M) it. The cost of fuel is a no brainer.

I think the Grey County Windfarm (~100 MW) employs about 10 people whereas the Holcomb plant (~350 MW) has around 250, so it looks to me like the O&M is gonna be lower at Grey County by a large margin. Not sure of the cost of the build out of the wind farm, but I believe the 1400 MW's proposed at Holcomb are at a cost of 3.2 billion dollars. That comes out to roughtly $2.3 million/MW to build. My hunch says the wind farm doesn't cost that much $/MW to build out.

There's a lot more to it than that. Actually the figures can be skewed for the costs depending on what you put into the formula. For Coal do you figure the cost of digging it up and transporting it or just burning it to make electricity? Wind is also not dependable but coal is. We have enough coal for hundreds of years. You also have to incorporate the costs of the subsidy's that the windfarms get from the gov't. We pay for that indirectly.

[88-31-10]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

There's a lot more to it than that. Actually the figures can be skewed for the costs depending on what you put into the formula. For Coal do you figure the cost of digging it up and transporting it or just burning it to make electricity? Wind is also not dependable but coal is. We have enough coal for hundreds of years. You also have to incorporate the costs of the subsidy's that the windfarms get from the gov't. We pay for that indirectly.

The cost of the coal is the cost the plant pays to have it dropped off at the plant. That includes the cost of mining it, transporting it, etc.

You are off base on the "There's a lot more to it than that." comment. Utilities use three things to calculate generation costs. Capital, O&M, & fuel costs.

I agree coal is more reliable. We also have enough wind for hundreds of years.

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by 88-31-10

The cost of the coal is the cost the plant pays to have it dropped off at the plant. That includes the cost of mining it, transporting it, etc.

You are off base on the "There's a lot more to it than that." comment. Utilities use three things to calculate generation costs. Capital, O&M, & fuel costs.

So do you think coal is cheaper than wind overall per KWH or vice versa?

[88-31-10]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

So do you think coal is cheaper than wind overall per KWH or vice versa?

I don't have all the numbers to make the determination. I think it's pretty close though. Especially when one of the three factors used to determine generation costs is $0 (fuel for wind farm). That, my man, is one hell of a large cost cut out.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Made in the USA

Solar is good. I studied a solar plant in Arizona/California area, and it could run an entire state. However, you have reliability problems just like wind (ie cloudy days).

Also energy storage problems. If you installed enough solar panels on the roof of your house to just run your house, it would cost you tens of thousands of dollars, at the least, and you would have to have a whole room dedicated to nothing but batteries to store the power to use it when you needed it.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by 88-31-10

TIME magazine?

I don't read TIME magazine online. I'm a subscriber.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by 88-31-10

The price to build either a coal fired plant or a wind farm are tremendously high. The big difference is the cost of fuel to run each plant. One is free. The other is not.

How do you plan on running your lights and computer when the wind isn't blowing? With wind generators, no wind=no power. Also, too much wind(>45-50mph) also equals no power.

[ksgrainman]

Great responses so far, thanks to you all. I am not putting in my own wind power, this is a company wanting to lease some land I have to develope a huge wind farm. Wind energy in NOT cheaper than coal generated power, nor is Muslim oil cheaper than Ethanol. Have been in meetings all last week and more to come. It is BIG money, at least for what I am used to.Thank you all for the input, keep it coming.