Dean says attacks getting too personal

[88-31-10]

Originally Posted by Flying Dutchman

See, I don't because most people are not disgusted. Most people are not unemployed, most people are not on welfare, most people who are on welfare are still on it and have not lost anything, most people are doing just fine. The independants, like me, are not that cut and dry. They understand that the president does not control everything. We understand that both parties have more in common than not. We also take things with a grain of salt and learn to read between the lines.

Well Dutchie, I just don't see it through your eyes I guess. But that's okay. In November we will both know the answer to this all important issue and all this "talk" will really have turned out to mean nothing.

Originally Posted by Flying Dutchman

Only by the die hard Democrats. That is why I think it is a mistake to try and paint him with that brush. It is the independants and middle ground persons who elect the president.

Again, I think we'll see in November what the "independants and middle ground persons" do.

Originally Posted by Flying Dutchman

As do I, but that was not the point in this thread. It was to point out how Dean is trying to stop the bleeding with his party. As for the war being "illegitimate", that is a far left thought. Most people may feel that the war is uneccasary (sic) but they do not feel it is an illegitimate one. Bush haters do though. If the Democrats wish to push that idea then they will alienate the middle ground. This is not about right and wrong, it is about common sense. The middle ground people voted Bush into office, twice. Now, if the democrats keep beating the drum about Bush being dumb, evil, stupid and wrong about going to war then they basically are calling those who voted for him the same. People do not like to be called stupid, even if they are. It is a bad strategy.

I am not trying to attack you or your views and opinions. I am, and was, merely trying to point out the situation with Dean and the spot the party he is the leader of is in. As an independant I am trying to show how things appear to someone who is not biased because of any party affiliation.

While I think that the whole "Dean thing", for all it's intrique and scandal, is probably playing pretty good to about a half a dozen "policy wonks" on the Dodge Board, I don't see it gaining much traction outside here. Probably only holds the interest of a certain few. You know, those of "far right thought". Again, we'll know in November who's strategery is working.

As an aside, I didn't take your astute political analysis as an attack. I read it for what it was. Have a nice day!

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by Flying Dutchman

....As for the war being "illegitimate", that is a far left thought. Most people may feel that the war is uneccasary (sic) but they do not feel it is an illegitimate one....

The problem I have with this so called “illegitimate war” is that the Democrats voted to give Bush the authority to wage it. 76% of the population supported it in the beginning. Once it was started we are committed to finish the job, whatever it takes. Pulling out because folks have grown tired of it is not an option and would do more harm than good in the long run. Bush’s opponents have turned it into a political football with our troops in the middle.

As for Clinton and Obama promising to end the war it ain’t going to happen. They have both made statements to the effect that withdrawal will be subject to the situation when (and if) they take office. If they listen to the commanders on the ground the situation will be no different than it is now or what McCain will do. If they don’t and just start pulling troops out the situation will fall apart and they will get the blame. While they would be happy to see failure on Bush’s watch they don’t want it on their own watch so expect no change. The American people may be tired of the war but the people don’t want our military coming home as losers with there tail between their legs either.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by 88-31-10

....While I think that the whole "Dean thing", for all it's intrique and scandal, is probably playing pretty good to about a half a dozen "policy wonks" on the Dodge Board, I don't see it gaining much traction outside here. Probably only holds the interest of a certain few. You know, those of "far right thought". Again, we'll know in November who's strategery is working....

For someone that claims;

Originally Posted by 88-31-10

To tell the truth I don't pay too much attention to "liberal or conservative"......

You sure jumped into the left side of this thread like a "policy wonk".

[Highwayman]

It’s way late. To be continued…….

[88-31-10]

Originally Posted by Highwayman

The problem I have with this so called “illegitimate war” is that the Democrats voted to give Bush the authority to wage it. 76% of the population supported it in the beginning.

You are correct with this assertion Mr Highway. But the Dems, the population, the UN, hell the whole world, were told a huge pack of lies leading up to the war. There are plenty of ex-administration officials, State Dept. officials, CIA officers, etc. who are now telling the story about events leading up to the war and it doesn't paint a real nice picture of Cheney and his cohorts. Now I fully expect you to blame it on bad intelligence, liberal media, politics, etc., but it is becoming apparent that some people in the administration were hell-bent on this war for whatever reason (I have my suspicions) and were going to use whatever means to accomplish their ends. As with any history, it takes time for the whole story to flesh itself out and when this one does, it won't be a rosy picture.

Now I don't know the answer to the predicament we're in, nor do I profess to, but I do know it is a real f**king mess. I also know it's gonna take leadership like we haven't seen in a while to clean it up. I'll use a baseball axiom to explain what I think are the possibilities of this kind of leadership appearing any time soon; I don't think we've got any home run hitters on our roster this season.

[88-31-10]

Originally Posted by Highwayman

For someone that claims;



You sure jumped into the left side of this thread like a "policy wonk".

Do you see it ("Dean thing") becoming a real important issue in the election?

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Flying Dutchman

The point of the thread was...

Since when has a thread on here stayed on track???

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by 88-31-10

Do you see it ("Dean thing") becoming a real important issue in the election?

I see Dean’s actions (and inactions) being a big factor in this election. His lack of leadership in dealing with the Michigan and Florida primaries last year is going to disenfranchise Democrats in those states and become a wedge issue at the convention.

Dean is currently making noise about getting the super delegates together before July to settle who will be the nominee in order to avoid a heated, brokered convention. Selected, not elected as in the sprit of the old Soviet Union.

I see a Democrat party getting itself into some deep do-do and much of the credit will rightfully go to Howard Dean. His current attempts to stop the infighting are too little and too late.

[88-31-10]

As I wrote in earlier posts to Dutchie, this will all flesh out in November.

[Flying Dutchman]

It might not make it to November. The writing is on the wall and it has not been to subtle about how if this does not get fixed before Denver there will be mass protests by members of the Democratic parties.