"Jihad Bomb Kills 20 in Dodge City!"

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by Detector

Archaeologist can spend decades looking for an entire city buried in the sand and still may never find it. They know it's there, they're experts at finding such buried cities and even with a good idea where to look may never find it. The Iraqi desert is a big place. It is literally like finding a needle in a haystack. Point is they know that needle exists so the haystack need to be treated as if that needle does exists.

Nice dodge (no pun intended). I work with wood, garden, do my own mechanic work, hunt, and reload shotgun shells. Therefore somewhere in my house you will find various solvents, fertilizers, lubiricants and fuels, and of course gun powder. In theory I could make bombs to blow up my mindless conservative neighbors or make street corner Meth. While blowing up my mindless neighbors and getting their useless offspring stoned might serve some selfish purpose the reality is that it will play hell with property values in my neighborhood, making meth is too messy plus it stinks (I have a degree in chemistry folks). Regardless, just because I may have the raw materials doesn't mean the Indianapolis police department is going to come arrest me because I might be able to make the stuff.

To argue with a straight face that WMD of sufficient quanitities were found in Iraq post invasion given the behavior of the Bush administration subsequent is dishonest at the core. To state that 9/11 gave the US justification to invade Iraq when Korea is giving us the finger, test firing delivery systems, and promising to use them while denying the oil reserves and beat down army of Iraq as a potential ulterior motive is intellectually dishonest in my opinion.

While I disagree with the kid's letter which started this thread, I think in his heart and in his training he believes what he wrote. God speed to him and all the other kids over there in getting that mess fixed. They deserve better.

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by lurker

No Terrorism To See Here

The problem with that argument is that it is incorrect. While there are some, always will be, that think the support of Israel is the reason for terrorist threats on the US or that terrorists won't attach us again, I think by and large most people of all political bents in the good ole USA know there are people that want to harm them and their lifestyle. Some of those people are home grown (remember Oklahoma City?)

Where the thing gets twisted is this constant attempt, mostly successful I might add, to equate a failed and misguided Iraq fixation with the global "war on terror".

[Detector]

I work with wood, garden, do my own mechanic work, hunt, and reload shotgun shells. Therefore somewhere in my house you will find various solvents, fertilizers, lubiricants and fuels, and of course gun powder. In theory I could make bombs to blow up my mindless conservative neighbors or make street corner Meth.

Before inspectors were kicked out back in 1991 they had already found these weapons. Saddam had killed thousands of his own people with these chemical weapons. I'm sure if things started being blown up in your neighborhood they have every right to invade your space.

WMD of sufficient quanitities

Oh, so now its "WMD of sufficient quantities." nice dodge of your own.

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by Detector

Before inspectors were kicked out back in 1991 they had already found these weapons. Saddam had killed thousands of his own people with these chemical weapons. I'm sure if things started being blown up in your neighborhood they have every right to invade your space..

The whole world knew he had them in 1991, hell they knew he had them and used them before then. Check your current events, when he used them against the Kurds, the US was his ally in his little tiff with Iran. The invasion of Iraq currently did not occur until 2001.

2,500+ lives later and countless maimed, billions of dollars and Lord only knows how many dead Iraqi's later you're no safer. You've got to take your shoes off a the airport and can't carry on water but you're still no safer, Iraq is not independent, their oil is not flowing and paying for rebuilding, but otherwise intelligent people have been convinced that somehow invading Iraq is fighting a war on terror. All the while our service people keep getting blown up and bin Laden keeps shooting the bird at us.

Originally Posted by Detector

Oh, so now its "WMD of sufficient quantities." nice dodge of your own.

You wouldn't know a dodge if it was delivered on the lips by a gay man.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by Outofdodge

.... but otherwise intelligent people have been convinced that somehow invading Iraq is fighting a war on terror.....

I don’t know. Can’t explain it. Unless it had something to do with all the connections Iraq had to terrorists that the 9/11 Commission and leading Democrats told us they had. You might have missed that.

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by Highwayman

I don’t know. Can’t explain it. Unless it had something to do with all the connections Iraq had to terrorists that the 9/11 Commission and leading Democrats told us they had. You might have missed that.

No, leading democrats supported the president with the wmd and immediate threat. You must have the fox news version of the 9/11 report, the copy on my book shelf debunks it.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by Outofdodge

No, leading democrats supported the president with the wmd and immediate threat. You must have the fox news version of the 9/11 report, the copy on my book shelf debunks it.

Detector, Lurker and I have posted sources in this thread. So far you’ve just been ranting.

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by Highwayman

Detector, Lurker and I have posted sources in this thread. So far you’ve just been ranting.

I don't rant anymore, that's why I got fired in Dodge, or at least that's the excuse they give (big enough clue for ya detector?).

You guys are pulling the old evangelical trick of pointing to one verse as a way of proving a point. The behavior and subsequent public statements of the administration's leaders and their mouthpieces do not support that Iraq still had WMD of the nature to support an invasion nor does it support, IMO that it was a serious threat to US security. I am not naive enough to think the shooting stopped in 1991 and we've had him militarily hemmed in since. N. Korea and Iran posed a more immediate threat but those areas, unlike Iraq required a truly multi-national approach, why? (Rhetorical, I'm getting to EOT)

Bush and his administration had a boner to get at that oil and serverly underestimated what it would take to secure it, put our troops in harms way by not equipping them properly and then could not admit to being in error. That the other party went along for the most part is a crying shame but look on the bright side, Hillary support of the war is probably going to keep her from getting two more terms as president.

Since I have posted on this forum I have been consistent in my Iraq opinion, nor do I think I have ever posted a cut and run approach. We're there, fix it, whatever "it" is and get the folks home. For whatever reason Bush got away with it at election time, and unfortunately based on the Connecticut example, will probably continue to get a pass. So i get to be the loyal opposition for the next 6 years probably.

Alas, in the vein of Vietnam, Sudan, and now Iraq, well trained and loyal citizens are used as pawns in the name of post-presidential speaking engagements and fancy libraries.

[Highwayman]

You claimed there was no link between Iraq and the war on terror. The stuff I posted referred to Iraq’s links to terrorists and the references were from Bill, Hill and the 9/11 Commission. Now you’re the one dodging by repeating the WMD and war for oil crap that has been standard liberal talking points.

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by Highwayman

You claimed there was no link between Iraq and the war on terror. The stuff I posted referred to Iraq’s links to terrorists and the references were from Bill, Hill and the 9/11 Commission. Now you’re the one dodging by repeating the WMD and war for oil crap that has been standard liberal talking points.

I still claim it. Cite one source other than the planning to assinate Bush the Elder which drew the standard Clinton cruise missle response prior to the invasion of Iraq. We've had full run of the country for several years now, doesn't anyone think that if there were any concrete evidence that it would have been all over the media by now? Even Fox can't maintain that charage. Links to Syria or support for Palestinian suicide bombers don't count as Israel has shown they can take care of themselves. Immediate or near immediate threats to the US which justified the invasion at the expense of rooting out the remmnants of the Taliban and bringing those directly responsible for the 9/11 attacks to justice in Afghanistan while making us impotent to deal fully with the blabbering that is North Korea?

Without looking up sources and going by single malt impaired brain cells, the reasons for invading Iraq went from won't get rid of WMD, to violating UN sanctions (funny the UN didn't want to go but we all know the French and Russians are for sale to the highest bidder), to removing and liberating the Iraqi people. All under the war on terror banner.

Right now the only terrorist I want to destroy is the engineer who did the #3 cylinder spark plug placement of a Ford 4.0 6 cylinder.