US - Mexico Fence

[K C Muffin]

Originally Posted by Bubba

That's when you put up a secondary fence and then put a minefield in between the two fences.

he he he

[Tee]

remember those sentry guns?

put up a few of those, load em with salt rock

[agnostic]

hehe mud.

I like that this senator or representative or whatever somehow thinks that it is JUST NOW a threat to national security. The concept of national security is being exploited and i can only see it getting worse.

[Clueless]

who will pick the fruit and vegetables we eat every day...who will work in the meat and poultry plants that we depend upon...who will provide a lot of the manual labor need but don't want to do...on and on. Even our Govt depends upon the withholding taxes and social security inputs from millions of illegals to float our national debt and entitlements. Economically, there's more at risk and they are services and products we all depend upon every day.

I'm the first to support a fence, (and the second one too) - and also one who worries what would happen if the fence worked and there were no more workers that impact our lives more than we think.....I don't want to pick vegetables, or pluck chickens, or empty trash, or clean anything. I want to be the plump-anglo I am - run my remote - and never see the one(s) who serve my needs. I'm not sure I can do that with the "wall". Can you?

[Demon '84]

Hi everybody! I've been lurking here since the beginning, but haven't had time to get involved. I guess I will now.

Originally Posted by Clueless

who will pick the fruit and vegetables we eat every day...who will work in the meat and poultry plants that we depend upon...who will provide a lot of the manual labor need but don't want to do...on and on.
SNIP
I don't want to pick vegetables, or pluck chickens, or empty trash, or clean anything. I want to be the plump-anglo I am - run my remote - and never see the one(s) who serve my needs. I'm not sure I can do that with the "wall". Can you?

This is a tired argument. Assuming a fence wouldn't keep out anyone already here, there would be no effect on any of these for the forseeable future.

It's wrong to contend that these jobs would not be done without illegal immigrants. Of course they would, but employers would have to pay wages suitable for legal workforce.

Have you seen the production line at one of our local beef plants? There is an incredible amount of manual labor. Why haven't they modernized, using more mechanized production methods? Because they don't have to! They have a seemingly endless supply of disposable labor available at below market cost.

Why do the people who support illegal immigration because of the poverty in Mexico and Central America have no problem relegating those immigrants to a life of poverty in this country?

[K C Muffin]

Gotcha, Clueless.....but every penny of withholding from the undocumented workforce plus millions more is spent in programs developed to serve American impoverished. They may pay the same withholding that we do, but consider that we're educating their chidlren for free, some of their medical treatment is free - basically, the taxes they pay through their job's withholding are paid back to them a couple of times over in immediate benefits.

As to who would do the jobs they currently perform, I probably wouldn't want them either, but that's because I chose a different path in life. The industries they service now could just as easily locate south of the border and still employ them, which is already done to some extent. And there are people on welfare right now that could fill those jobs if they were vacant.

I don't really know the answers, but I do know that we either have to stem the flow of undocumented people in this country or open the borders completely and turn a blind eye on terrorism.

[Clueless]

and I know they may be 'tired', but the issues are still real. We have to realize that costs of many goods and services will move upward, some significantly, as a result of an effective border closurer.

I'm not really one who relegates illegals to classes of poverty and lowest wage-ranges, but I am a realist and understand this to be a far larger economic issue than it may appear.

We must close our borders (specifically with Mexico) and stop the flow of illegals. But, while we're building the fence understand that our own government is cooperating with Mexico and encouraging States and financial institutions to accept Matricula Consular identification cards issued by Mexican consulates as alternate forms of id to secure drivers licenses and and banking accounts. Part of us want to seal our borders - part of us want to open and that is an agency war within our own.

[TexKan]

All I know is we gotta do sumthin - it really is out of control. Not sure what the answer is but doing nothing for fear of this and fear of that means it only multiplies daily. Nobody said the answer had to perfect the first time out but whinning about them being here (like I do ) and NOT endorsing the doing of SOMETHING to stop the flow is just a little to hypicritical for me. I want the fences, mine fields, and the land mines. I can grow a garden and eat chicken. If the wages were enough to get someone off assistance then I think that should go to a US citizen. We can SELECTIVLY fill the void if and when we have one.

[agnostic]

demon..some good points. my only real contention is about the workers being in poverty in the USA. thing is, poverty in the united states is a hell of a lot better than poverty in other countries. furthermore, these people are sending money back to their families.

bottom line..they're making more here and able to have a better quality of living whether "in poverty" or not.

i could see that being a reason why ..

the people who support illegal immigration because of the poverty in Mexico and Central America have no problem relegating those immigrants to a life of poverty in this country?

[Detector]

I just don't get this idea that if illegals didn't do these jobs no one would. That has got to be about the farthest from reality I've ever heard. American's did the jobs before we had an illegal problem and they'd darn sure do it if they weren't here. And if we got so many illegals paying taxes that them being kicked out would destroy our economy, then we got bigger problems than illegals.