Bush distancing himself from...

[lurker]

Originally Posted by notyoubob

Am I the only one of all the DCB members on board who wonders how the discourse would have changed had someone other than Wordie introduced the topic?
And oh yeah, I always vote based on political ads and news "spins" and "not spins."

Nodoubtbob. Wewuvwordy and he expects nothing less than the best from us. Had another posted the 'stay the course' gaffe, then I'm sure it would have fallen through the cracks in the bored.

[wordsmythe]

I'm a lightning rod.

I know whatever I say will get hammered but I've got pretty thick skin and enjoy the "discussion."

[lurker]

Originally Posted by wordsmythe

I'm a lightning rod.

I know whatever I say will get hammered but I've got pretty thick skin and enjoy the "discussion."

No wordy. You're not a lightning rod... You're more like a tesla coil.

[wordsmythe]

Tesla Rocked!

[TexKan]

We expect a post like that from Wordie..... occasionally from Bubba...... and Bob you can join in anytime. Hell don't sit back and watch......... Wordie usually fights the fight alone.........

With the division over politics bein like it is......... it's only gonna get uglier...... don't let the fella battle alone!!!

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by Bubba

A little montage to show some how Bush can lie with a straight face.

Please refer to my post on the first page.

Originally Posted by notyoubob

Am I the only one of all the DCB members on board who wonders how the discourse would have changed had someone other than Wordie introduced the topic?.....

Depends on if they posted a legitimate argument or just far left spin.

[notyoubob]

Ok.
Bush is freakin' nutz and his "seconds" are worse. I watched the TV just after the statue of Saddam was pulled down and in the next few days all I saw was hundreds of young, Iraqi males standing around. waiting for.... waiting for...waiting for...
That seemed to me to be big trouble. And what did we, the US of A, do? We jumbled and jived and shoved BS up all our noses and what happened? We hired VP Cheney's old company to help. And what did they do beside line their pockets? Tell me, really, tell me what they did?
The young, male Iraqis are still with no jobs or money, and started causing trouble.
What a surprise.
And what are those still young, unemployed males doing now?
Just turn on any TV news.
And anyone who sees this "differently" is deemed "anti-American."
So, how's the high DJ average affecting your life?

[lurker]

Young Iraqi males are causing trouble in Europe, too.

EU’s fight against radical Islam
Religious leaders, politician say only if Muslim immigrants accept western values tensions would subside
Gil Yaron

(DUSSELDORF) – Henrik Broder, a prominent Jewish journalist in Germany, recently published a book titled, “Hooray! We Surrender!” which criticizes what the author refers to as ‘Europe’s weakness in its battle against Islam.’


“We must define what sets us aside as a society, and what values we must uphold in our struggle against Islam,” Broder tells Ynet.

Broder’s remarks come amid the ever-increasing tension in Europe between the traditional values and those of radical Islam, which are beginning to spread throughout the continent. It began with the Madrid terror attack, which was carried out by a cell of immigrants from North Africa and the Middle East and continued with the London bombings, which were carried out by UK-born Muslims, and the attempts to attack airliners in Britain and trains in Germany. In the interim there were the violent riots in response to the prophet Muhammad caricatures, the outrage and threats over Pope Benedict XVI’s accusations and the public outcry following the UK veils affair.

With the end of the Cold War 17 years ago, Europe was able to unite around values of democracy, individualism and a free market. But lately the atmosphere ion Europe has begun to change, and tolerant Europe has started to organize against radical Islam (and some say Islam in general), an ideology that is being referred to more and more as ‘an enemy of modern western society’s lifestyle.

Until recently political correctness reigned in Europe, and those who dared point an accusatory finger at minorities were ostracized. When immigrants attacked their host-countries in Europe, the Europeans blamed western society for ‘inadequately absorbing them.’

Dialogue, not confrontation was the solution to the absorption difficulties of immigrants; criticism of the Muslim minority, part of which refused to accept the social ideals of the majority, was dismissed as racist - and so the Muslims in Europe did not integrate with the western population.

But following Madrid and London attacks, as well as the Muslim riots over the Mohammad caricatures, there are more and more signs indicating that the European Union is beginning to view Islam and the Muslim immigrants as an existential threat.

Mission: Intelligence

About 15 million Muslims live In Europe today, which constitute about 3-4 percent of the population in most European countries. In France, Muslims make up and estimated 10 percent. Police forces across Europe have already started to focus efforts on collecting intelligence information among their countries’ Islamic communities.

For German intelligence, for instance, this is virgin territory. German police, who confer regularly with Jewish officials to assess the threat to their safety, admitted to them that they have know idea of the goings-on in Germany’s Muslim communities.

Senior police officials themselves confessed to Ynet that, “There are whole areas in German cities that in our view are ‘out of bounds’, and we don’t enter them anymore. For too long we thought that as long as we let them manage themselves, they won’t bother us. Now this attitude is taking its revenge on us.”

Germany Defense Ministry official Christian Schmidt, a member of the governing Christian Democrats party (CDU), told Ynet that among the Muslim community in his country, “Thousands tend towards extremism and pose a threat to us.”

He said that contrary to absorption processes in other communities, among Muslims future generations become more fanatic, with “the third generation being the most extremist.”

Currently various German states are considering legislation to obligate imams to carry sermons in German, to “increase the transparency of Muslim communities and abate concern and suspicion.” In effect, this reflects the shortage of Turkish and Arabic speakers in the German intelligence community and the difficulties hindering them from collecting crucial information from this sector.

Tensions between communities have been rising since last summer's thwarted terror attacks in Britain and Germany. Two and a half month ago plans to blow up two trains in Koln failed to materialize due to technical failures in the makeshift bombs hidden in two suitcases.

German authorities nabbed a number of suspects and the mastermind of the attempted attacks, which prompted a debate about whether the government should make it obligatory for transportation operators to install CCTV cameras on trains.

In Britain a plot to blow up a number of US-bound planes using liquid explosives, shook a nation that was still trying to come to terms with the July 7 attacks two years earlier.

Relations between 1.8 British Muslims and the rest of the country suffered another set back as tension grew and a wide-scale arrest raids conducted against Muslim terror suspects across the country only added fuel to the fire.

The government said it is weighing plans to cut public funds to Muslim schools, although no such plans were considered for the 36 Jewish and 7,000 Christian schools in the monarchy.

In another dramatic development, the Ministry of Education announced new regulation to the higher education system which would make it obligatory for British universities to keep track of the activities of Muslim students and report any suspicious behavior to law enforcement authorities.

Many countries did not suffice with discussions: The governments of Germany and Britain launched dialogue with Muslim organizations in the hope that a European form of Islam – one that is pragmatic and pacifist - would emerge.

In Berlin, the home of many Germans of Turkish origins, Turkish kindergartens would be forced to adopt the German language as the only communication tool in the hope to inoculate minority children with the values of democracy and civil rights.

In Switzerland meanwhile, where Muslims constitute less than one percent of the population, referendums held in a number of cantons reflected the will of an overwhelming majority to limit the spread of Islam. More so, strict immigration laws were introduced, and in many areas the construction of new Mosques has been banned.

Debate on values

But for many this is not enough. While individualism has been a supreme value in Europe for many decades, common European values have been subject to intense debate especially to the backdrop of Turkey's impending membership in the European Union.

"We need to start public discussions about our values, which we have to communicate in a resolute manner," Michael Geller, a member of the European parliament representing Germany's CDU told Ynet.

"Islam is not a threat yet, but a challenge that forces us to define our common values. Citizen rights and the status of women especially are things that should be assimilated among Muslim immigrants," he said.

Henrik Broder however is a skeptic. "I don't think Europe know to do something besides to surrender. People have no idea what they are fighting for. We can't set the clock back, and I don't want Europe to give up on its Muslims. But when the Dutch justice minister says it is possible for Sharia to become the basis for Dutch laws and when in England there are independent Sharia courts – that's the end of European societu as we know it," he said.

http://www.ynetnews.com/Ext/Comp/Art...317583,00.html

This pot was boiling long before the lid blew off...

[TexKan]

what would you have done differently? I don't recall everyone bein so upset with Bush when the statue fell - infact I recall CNN covering it and other agencies breaking in to show it - inch by inch. I don't follow politics that close but tell me did you cry foul on that day or were you feeling like we finally had toppeled a dictator? I felt like we had made a real accomplishment the mood I remember in the Iraqi males was jubilation - you musta seen some other coverage I didn't. Which is entirely possible. All this sounds like Monday mornin quaterbackin to me.

For the record tho.........what is it (years after the event) that you wanted GW to be doin? I think Iraq fell much quicker than anticipated......

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by TexKan

All this sounds like Monday mornin quaterbackin to me.

And in our society and our protections Monday mornin' quartebackin is fair game. In a normal situation out of desent comes retrospection, consensus building, and sometimes even compromise.

This quarterbacking has been going on in one form or another when it became obvious that there was not a plan in place to garner control of the country once the sitting regime was overthrown. That more and more are seeing the contradictions and asking questions is a sign that not all things are shot in this country.

And even until now, with the military leaders testifying that civil war was likely in Iraq, the administration was still saying things were fine.

Once the decision was made to invade then there was a responsiblity to protect the peace and get that country moving again. We have more dead and maimed servicemen because of that neglect and until now, the administration had no overt thought at changing tactics and goals.

That this new 'admission' of a need to change tactics somehow manages to coincide with polls that show the republican party in danger of losing one or both of it's congressional majorities is a crying shame.

Like it or not the two party Party is the only game in town. If you want to force change, however feel good Kinky types are, the game is still Republican or Democrat.