New Alcohol Plant

[Made in the USA]

Somebody must have gotten confused, or threw a typo--------the only steel that I know of in Dodge City is Wessel's. The only tank company that I know of in the area is Palmer, like Lurker said, and they make primarily fiberglass tanks.

[Bubba]

I found this about them, they have a website even.

Atec Steel is a premier manufacturer of the highest quality, custom designed, knocked-down field welded tanks. Regionally located in the Southeast corner of Kansas, ATEC STEEL erects field welded tanks throughout
the U.S., Canada and Mexico.

Unless Dodge City moved to southeast Kansas, I would say that somebody really goofed!

ATEC STEEL
1000 West 5th Street
Baxter Springs, KS 66713



http://www.atecsteel.com/

[lurker]

The incentive driving this race to distill is corporate welfare at the blender level. Currently there's a 51 cents per gallon tax credit to those whose job is to do nothing more than pour alcohol into gasoline.

It ain't fraud but I don't see it as a genuine "market driven" necessity. Some say the tax credit should be given to the producers. That's true; but the awards/rewards aren't created by producers.... unless someone can convince me that Politicians and Bureaucrats are Producers.

Ethanol plants are good for rural America, but will it last?

By Dan Looker Edit: He swears we're related but I don't think so... lurker.
Successful Farming Business Editor

10/27/2006, 4:36 PM CDT

Farmers have been saying for years that ethanol plants give a boost to the economies of small towns and rural communities. Now they've got scholarly studies that show just how important local ownership can be- something that activists and farm leaders hope will help keep ethanol dollars local.

An economic study for the National Corn Growers Association by John Urbanchuk, shows that the contribution to a local economy from a farmer-owned plant is as much as 56% larger than from an absentee-owned corporate plant. That's because some jobs at the corporate plant may be consolidated at the home office far away, and because the locally-owned plant generates dividends that are mostly spent by its owners in the community. The study examined a typical 50-million gallon a year dry mill ethanol plant.

You can find the full study at: National Corn Growers Association - NCGA.

Another study, overseen by Iowa State University's Leopold Center for Sustainable Agriculture, shows that a plant that is not locally owned would directly or indirectly stimulate 133 jobs in the regional economy. But with every 25% increase in local ownership of a plant, 29 more jobs are added.

One of the economists who did the study, David Swenson, said the increase in jobs comes from local plant owners spending their dividend checks. A summary of the study, which was funded by the W.K. Kellogg Foundation, is available online at: http://www.valuechains.org/bewg/Docu...th_sum0706.pdf.

Swenson points out, too, that if ethanol plants have financial losses, communities that are more dependent on locally-owned plants will have greater losses of jobs.

Bruce Noel, a fourth-generation Michigan farmer who heads the National Corn Growers Ethanol Committee, said his group isn't opposing continued development of absentee-owned plants, but NCGA is looking for ways to help farmers to continue to invest in the industry. Currently, nearly half of all ethanol plants and 38% of all production are owned by farmer co-ops or LLCs. But the Renewable Fuels Association considers only two of the plants now under construction to be farmer-owned.

Noel tells Agriculture Online that after the recent Advancing Renewable Energy Conference in St. Louis, Corn Growers met with Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman and USDA Undersecretary for Rural Development Tom Dorr to discuss ways to keep ethanol production in farmer hands.

Corn growers would like to see investor-owned plants offer ownership to farmers and local people, but the net worth requirements, typically $1.5 million, are often out of reach. "Especially the younger farmers and those without great net worth are finding it hard to get in at any level," Noel said. "It's kind of the rich getting richer scenario, if I may be blunt about it."

"We're looking at what is possible for NCGA as an organization to do," he adds. "We're looking at some ideas."

David Morris of the Institute for Local Self Reliance (Institute for Local Self-Reliance (ILSR) - Home Page) in Minneapolis, has some ideas, too. If anything, current federal policy in the Department of Energy favors larger-scale production that's not locally owned, he said. And the existing 51 cent-a-gallon tax credit that goes to fuel blenders using ethanol is encouraging absentee investment in the ethanol industry.

"That is rewarding ethanol consumption. It doesn't even think about the ownership structure," Morris said.

Instead, he'd like to see the tax credit dropped and replaced with a direct subsidy to start-up plants owned by local investors. It might be for 25¢ a gallon, with absentee-owned plants getting 15¢ and locally-owned ones getting 30¢. It would apply to the first 25 or 30 million gallons of capacity. And it would be phased out after a plant is 10-years old-long enough to pay off startup loans.

Morris also thinks that the USDA, in spite of the verbal support its leaders give ethanol, could be doing more to encourage rural investment in ethanol plants through programs for cooperatives.

"This could have a profound impact on agriculture, if it's done correctly," he said.

[Made in the USA]

Another logistics problem compounding the alcohol revolution, according to reports that I have read, is the transportation of spent grain byproduct to the area where the feedyards exit. As corn supplies become tight, due to the use by the alcohol operations, the price of corn rises, and feedyards struggle to feed cattle. The grain hull and residue, minus the starch, has to then be transported to animal feeding areas. In the Dodge City area, this will not be so much of a problem with all the area feedlots. However, in other areas of the country, this could cause transportation problems and costs.

[Big Daddy]

What are we talking about? Storage for Fertilizer? Were do you think these fertillizer comes from? Fossile Fuel........ we will need to produce and use more fosil fuels to make a more exspensive, less eficiant replacement. (Ethanol) Now how can that make sense.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Big Daddy

What are we talking about? Storage for Fertilizer? Were do you think these fertillizer comes from? Fossile Fuel........ we will need to produce and use more fosil fuels to make a more exspensive, less eficiant replacement. (Ethanol) Now how can that make sense.

Good point.

Let's break it down.....

1. Ethanol plant takes huge amounts of water, and natural gas to run the boiler for it's process.

2. Ethanol plant will need lots of corn to make the ethanol.

3. More corn usage will raise prices of corn.

4. Higher corn prices will coax local farmers to grow more corn.

5. Growing corn takes huge amounts of water.

6. Growing corn takes Anhydrous Ammonia to nourish the soil to produce more corn yields.

7. Growing and harvesting corn will take more diesel fuel for the farm equipment to fertilize, plant, cultivate and harvest.

8. Anhydrous Ammonia comes from Natural Gas.

9. A vehicle running on ethanol will not travel as far as a vehicle running on gasoline.

10. Parts on a vehicle running ethanol will break down sooner than the same car running on gasoline.



If we really want to conserve energy and burn cleaner fuel, why don't we just skip all the above and convert vehicles to natural gas.

[Made in the USA]

If we really want to conserve energy and burn cleaner fuel, why don't we just skip all the above and convert vehicles to natural gas.---Bubba

It can be done, however it is a little more dangerous because you are working with a compressed/liquified gas. However, the largest natural gas field in the US, the Hugoton field, is nearing exhaustion.

The point about consuming more energy than is achieved is true, as I alluded to in earlier posts.

The land has been purchased on the West side of Dodge City for the second alcohol plant operation. I think this plant may include production of "biodiesel " also. Biodiesel is made from soybeans. Another "dry-land" crop--

[Flying Dutchman]

I have to agree with the "money talks" crowd.

Ever notice how it is not hard to convince people to recycle? It just sounds right. Recycle your old paper to save the trees. But, trees are grown especially to make paper. It also costs more to recycle paper then it does to just make it in the first place. Same with plastic. The only thing worth recycling is metal. If you get paid for it, it is cost effective. When they start paying you cash for old paper and plastic, it will be cost effective. The gov. spends X amount of money each year to run and employ people at recycling plants but do not make the same amount back.

The same argument is being said about the windmills. It sounds good, hell, it makes sense. Wind is free......but is it? Are we reaping any rewards from these windmills? Funny, my electric bill and gas bills are higher. Aquila just asked for increases, didn't they?

Now comes ethenol. It costs more to make it than the savings you get from it. Pure and simple. Most engines can't even run on it. It sure sounds good though, we already grow corn, hell, lets use it. How much corn do you have to grow to make a gallon of this stuff? Are big companies going to take over growing it, then get subsidies from the governement for being a farm, thus taking away from small farms? Are we really running out of oil, or are we just stuck having to buy it from somebody else?

I see this as a total loss to us here. I think these plants are a big rip-off that we are going to have to pay for, while those in charge will just shrug their collective shoulders when all is said and done because nothing can or will happen to them.

Just wanted to say that Palmer makes all type of tanks not just fiberglass. I used to work for them as a draftman they made tanks for everything. When I worked there they made over 200 tanks for NASA.

[lurker]

Have no fear. This HutchNews Editorial has it all figger'd out.

I liked this little thot:

Higher prices seemingly will have an adverse impact on feedlots and, consequently, the beef and pork industries.

However, again, maybe market forces need to be allowed to work. Higher prices for beef might not be bad for the diets of consumers nor definitely for producers who prefer grazing over feedlots. Cattle and hog feeders, too, might need to diversify what they use to fatten livestock.

They didn't suggest feeding them Big Macks.