Science and Mythology

[Highwayman]

I’d like to interrupt this fine debate about science to mention politics. In general, the folks that oppose Intelligent Design are typically the same folks that oppose prayer in school, under God in the pledge, In God We Trust on our money, etc. These folks, including some judges, pervert the First Amendment by focusing on the establishment clause and ignoring the probation clause thereby misconstruing freedom OF religion into freedom FROM religion.

As we enter the Christmas season we see the reports of schools not allowing certain songs in their winter break, holiday whatever anything but Christmas programs like Silent Night and so on. One school even banned students from saying “Merry Christmas” on campus. This is an outright violation of freedom of religion and speech.

I see the opposition to ID as another extension of the battle to remove God from public view completely. Scientific data on one side is citied while scientific data on the other side is ignored in an attempt to suppress any view that might involve a God. I’m sure the phrase endowed by their Creator in The Declaration of Independence must upset these folks to no end. If this lunacy is allowed to continue, we might see a day when having a religious bumper sticker on your cars will get you banned from a public street.

The argument about “science” is just a smoke screen to cover the real agenda.

[Detector]

The argument about “science” is just a smoke screen to cover the real agenda.

I agree completely.

This may sound nutty but I really feel sorry for these types. If you think about it its not really an issue of these people feeling as though religion is being forced upon them, but I believe its more of a jealousy of those who are happy with their beliefs.

Take the motto In God We Trust. It doesn't specify any particular God leaving its interpretation open to everyone. Adopted at a time when pretty much everyone believed in some sort of god or guiding force in their lives.

Enter the generation of people who have no guiding force in their lives other than themselves.

Its not that these people actually believe some one else's god is being forced on them but that they just can't stand the idea that others allow a God in their lives and are happy. What really cracks me up is that these people claim to be offended by something they don't believe in anyway.

People are slowing growing tired of these charades by the politically correct bunch and just saying get a life. I heard this morning on the new that some town named White Settlement put to vote a changing of their name for fear of the PC police but it was voted down 9-1 to keep their name. The Jesse Jackson's of the world are becoming old worn out news.

I think our forefathers realized the connection between spiritualism, faith and morality and thats why we see so many references to a trust in God. God can be defined in as many different ways as there's people to define it but most come down to faith or morality. Tagging every reference to God as a 'separation of church and state' issue only serves those who have no need for morality and would rather EVERYONE be governed by laws and not person values. We know how screwed up laws are. If there is no law or they can find a loophole then they feel that makes it OK. Justifying unethical behavior is easy when simply governed by laws and not moral values.

We see the results as our ever growing generations of morally inept people filter in to powerful positions further working to remove reliance on moral values. Those of you who think this is a good thing need to remember that the only reason we have laws is to control those with no moral values. Laws are simply moral values put on paper.

I define my God as that little voice that tells me right from wrong. Granted, that little voice has been molded around the Christian beliefs, but just because you don't believe in my God does not make him null and void.

[wordsmythe]

I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one fellas.

ID has no scientific basis to back it up. Yes there are holes in some of the evolution theory but there are mountains of evidence to support most of it.

The ID religious freaks trying to legitimize their POV by calling it science are the ones blowing smoke.

[K C Muffin]

Originally Posted by wordsmythe

I'm gonna have to call bullshit on that one fellas.

Ooh! My turn! My turn!

Wordy, I love ya to pieces. I haven't gotten involved in this thread because I have nothing but beliefs to back me up - no chapter and verse as you are so want to recite.

This great country was founded on a freedom scheme. We celebrate Thanksgiving tomorrow. I will give thanks for the freedoms my forefathers were bright enough to write into the declaration of independence and our first constitution. One of them being the freedom of religion. If we remove any religious symbol from our everyday lives, then what freedom is it?

For example, if you - an atheist (just an example here, I have no idea of your religious upbringing) are successful in removing God from my pledge of allegiance, from my legal tender, on and on and on....then what freedom do I have? Freedom is for all. God is an historic belief.

Are you telling me you want to thumb your nose at our country's great history? I wouldn't think so - that's what makes us so great and that's what our young people are over in Iraq for now, whether we agree with the reason for the conflict or not.

I think our arms are big enough to wrap around anybody, regardless of their beliefs. We just don't have room for anybody that tries to put their own beliefs above anybody else's, except at the polls.

I just don't want to reduce this country to a civil war over religion. And that appears to be where we're headed.

What are you afraid of? Afraid your children might hear a different story about creation/evolution and believe it? I'm not afraid. I want my children and theirs, too, exposed to every theory so they can make their own decisions. Freedom - I'll eat turkey tomorrow in the name of freedom.

[Detector]

ID has no scientific basis to back it up. Yes there are holes in some of the evolution theory but there are mountains of evidence to support most of it.

We're not talking about 'some of the evolution theory' but the theory that all species somehow mutated from a single beginning. This has absolutely no evidence what so ever. So I guess you could also say it has no scientific basis to back it up. Just because evolution happens on a per species lower level doesn't mean it also happened on a grand scale. Especially since there is nothing to show it ever happened.

I want my children and theirs, too, exposed to every theory so they can make their own decisions. Freedom - I'll eat turkey tomorrow in the name of freedom.

Well said Muffin. I just want my family and I to have the right to make up our own minds not be told by scientists or evangelists what to believe. If in my opinion I believe in God then give me, or anyone, the right to live it.

[wordsmythe]

Muffin,

This topic has nothing to do with taking God off of money or out of the pledge. This is about sceintific standards taught in our schools.

There is no science involved in intelligent design. I have no problem with religion being taught in the proper context.

I do have a problem with the faithful trying to force others to believe the Bible is a text book.

I have the same problem with that as I would having Dianetics as a text in science class.

[K C Muffin]

Originally Posted by wordsmythe

Muffin, This topic has nothing to do with taking God off of money or out of the pledge. This is about sceintific standards taught in our schools.

Oh, but it is. It's just the tip of the iceberg. Remove it from public places, then remove the awareness from schools, then slowly but surely outlaw the display of religious articles in neighborhood Christmas decorations.

I'm not saying let's teach it as the ONLY explanation of our history, but it certainly is one that is widely accepted. Let's at least give our students the option to choose for themselves. Especially at the high school level, I thinkg they're mature enough to do that.

Or maybe you're part of the small segment that still thinks students believe as fact everything that's taught to them as part of public education curriculum.

At the end of the day, I'm not going to change your mind, and you aren't going to change mine. Let's agree to disagree on this particular topic and move on. There's too much fun waiting for us!