ConocoPhillips joins climate group

[TigerEyes]

You do realize that carbonic acid and carbon dioxide are two separate things, right? High levels of carbonic acid do not equate to high levels of carbon dioxide, since it's the reaction of carbon dioxide and water that CREATE the carbonic acid.

Case in point - we learned early on in high school chemistry that you could lower the pH of a solution by MAYBE one tenth just by breathing on it. (Took a lot of breathing, though.) That's how we learned that the CO2 from our exhalation reacted with the H2O in the solution to create carbonic acid. That does NOT mean that CO2 got added to the water.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by TigerEyes

Uhhh... last time I visited the ocean, it was flat, not carbonated.

From doing some quick internet research...

Found this from NIWA (National Institute of Water and Atmospheric Research) is a highly successful, internationally respected research organization and New Zealand’s leading provider of environmental research and consultancy services.

The ocean–atmosphere link

Clearly, the ocean plays an important part in the greenhouse gas picture. CO2 is much more soluble in water than gases like oxygen or nitrogen, which is why CO2 is used to make beer, soft drinks and sparkling wine fizzy. This high solubility means the total amount of CO2 held in the ocean is huge – about 60 times that held in the atmosphere and about 20 times greater than the earth's biosphere.

This from BBC News...

Our oceans are teeming with phytoplankton: millions of microscopic plants beneath the waves that are vital to the marine ecosystem because they form the base of the marine food chain....They employ photosynthesis, using sunlight and carbon dioxide (CO2) from sea water, to sustain themselves.

"Just like trees, they can take carbon dioxide and give us back oxygen," says Professor Ian Jones, an ocean engineer from the University of Sydney, Australia.

When the plankton die, they sink deep to the ocean floor, taking the carbon with them.

This from abc.net....

As the planet warms, the ability of our oceans to dissolve atmospheric carbon dioxide will decrease because of three key factors - the increase in water temperature, slowing of the thermohaline current and the role of phytoplankton.

The increase in water temperature will affect the solubility capacity of the oceans because colder water absorbs more carbon dioxide. This is why most carbon dioxide absorption occurs in the icy waters of the poles in the North Atlantic and Southern Oceans.

I'm not as dumb as I look.....I do know a thing or two about a thing or two!

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Made in the USA

.....For that much CO2 to be dissolved in an aqueous solution, the pH would have to be rather low!

I think you are onto part of what I am saying....when the ocean takes in too much carbon dioxide it does raise the acidity level of the oceans. You know the old saying about how Mother Nature takes care of itself? I say that is why there have been cycles of global warming in history, as proven by ice core samples taken in the Antarctic. The sun is warming our oceans, as the oceans warm they are releasing CO2. This is Mother Natures way of healing itself before problems occur.

The earth was going through a cooling trend from the 1940's through about 1974. Remember the news stories in the 70's about how we were heading for another ice age? Well, while the earth was in that cooling cycle the oceans were absorbing the CO2 out of the atmosphere. Before the oceans became too acidic, Mother Nature turned on the ocean healing process by creating warmer temps so that the ocean would give back the CO2 it had been absorbing over the years.

[TigerEyes]

Yeah. CO2 is so soluble in water that only high pressure is it actually dissolved in carbonated beverages. It's so soluble that at normal temperatures and atmospheric pressure, it leaves the solution in the form of bubbles. It's so soluble that carbonated beverages only keep the CO2 in solution when kept under pressure.

Yes, it's present, and yes, it's soluble, but NOT to the extent you guys are making it out to be.

[TigerEyes]

Originally Posted by Bubba

Before the oceans became too acidic, Mother Nature turned on the ocean healing process by creating warmer temps so that the ocean would give back the CO2 it had been absorbing over the years.

By the way, the oceans have never been acidic. It's pH is greater than 7.0, which - according to all my references - makes it alkaline. Instead of saying the ocean's becoming more acidic, it'd be more appropriate to say it's becoming less alkaline.

[Jolly Rancher]

Makes me wish I would have paid more attention to science in school.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by TigerEyes

By the way, the oceans have never been acidic. It's pH is greater than 7.0, which - according to all my references - makes it alkaline. Instead of saying the ocean's becoming more acidic, it'd be more appropriate to say it's becoming less alkaline.

Six of one, half a dozen of the other. If, hypothetically, the oceans normal pH is 7.75 and it absorbs CO2 over decades and the pH decreases to 7.25. It is truthful and perfectly acceptable to say that the ocean has become more acidic. By saying that something has become more acidic, you are merely stating that the pH has been lowered.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by TigerEyes

Yeah. CO2 is so soluble in water that only high pressure is it actually dissolved in carbonated beverages. It's so soluble that at normal temperatures and atmospheric pressure, it leaves the solution in the form of bubbles. It's so soluble that carbonated beverages only keep the CO2 in solution when kept under pressure.

Yes, it's present, and yes, it's soluble, but NOT to the extent you guys are making it out to be.

Originally Posted by Bubba

Re-read this from the NIWA quote...."This high solubility means the total amount of CO2 held in the ocean is huge – about 60 times that held in the atmosphere and about 20 times greater than the earth's biosphere."

I'm not making this up! It comes from scientists that are probably much smarter than myself.

[Made in the USA]

Originally Posted by TigerEyes

You do realize that carbonic acid and carbon dioxide are two separate things, right? High levels of carbonic acid do not equate to high levels of carbon dioxide, since it's the reaction of carbon dioxide and water that CREATE the carbonic acid.

Case in point - we learned early on in high school chemistry that you could lower the pH of a solution by MAYBE one tenth just by breathing on it. (Took a lot of breathing, though.) That's how we learned that the CO2 from our exhalation reacted with the H2O in the solution to create carbonic acid. That does NOT mean that CO2 got added to the water.

Carbonic acid can be created by the decomposition of alkalinity. CO2 does not have to be under pressure to dissolve in water and form carbonic acid either. Since it seems that you just want to argue about it Kitty, I will cease my part of the discussion. Thanks anyway, and good day to ya.

By the way Bubba, that was really interesting info. that you found!!!

[Bubba]

I try. Hopefully others have learned things that I also didn't know until I went looking for it.