You maketh...and Hillary taketh...

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by SGT T.

....And was it just me, or did all the bold in the first post kind of look like the Communist party line? All in it together, no difference in classes, if your neighbor works hard and gets a Ferrari, then you should get one too. Da Comrade?....

It does sound like another five year plan doesn’t it.

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by SGT T.

AOO, that was BAD. (Two points for you!)

And OOD, we have a saying here in the Army. We defend democracy. We don't practice it.

And was it just me, or did all the bold in the first post kind of look like the Communist party line? All in it together, no difference in classes, if your neighbor works hard and gets a Ferrari, then you should get one too. Da Comrade?

Hope you enjoy standing in line for your bread! (I do it every day.)

DING DING DING....we have a winner!!!!

[jeezeweeze]

YouTube - OxyClinton on the Half Hour News Hour

[youngwhippersnapper]

I find it interesting that KC_muffin and Texkan haven't touched this post.

Must be to touchy a subject.


AOO I don't think you and I get along to well sometimes. One thing we do agree on is that as you dubbed her "Hildebeast" is going to be massively detrimental to our country.

I'm a pretty firm believer that hard work warrents rewards. Its sad when I see a new applicant come in to the hotel and he/she needs another application just to fill in their previous job list, and they are younger than me.

But Army, its sad to say that in this country it is hard to get by. It shouldn't be but there are levels of corporate greed out there that even the most cynical person could admire. Enron or WorldCom, ring any bells. Oil Company and a Communications Company. Two of the most important facets of American society. If we deal with these kinds of people in charge of the companies with whom we have so much need for, then what position are we putting ourselves in?

You speak to defend you beliefs and thats admirable. But you are blinded by partisanship. The current administration is a failure. As was Carter's. In fact they have quite a bit in common. Low approval ratings and abyssmal failures in the Middle East. (its not the troops is the war planners.) Wow, would have never thought a Democrat and a Republican would have so much in common.

I don't believe the Iraq war was justified. They were just a letter off in the name for the right country to go into. Our soldiers are wasting their time fighting a losing battle over a scroggy patch of dirt known as Iraq when they could be productively using their time fighting a winning battle over a scroggy piece fo dirt in Iran.


YWS

[jeezeweeze]

I know you are an "OLD SOUL" now....

Your mom and dad did a fine job...

Dad ..being a vet ... had a great deal of wisdom for you...


Just guessing here..

[youngwhippersnapper]

Originally Posted by jeezeweeze

I know you are an "OLD SOUL" now....

Your mom and dad did a fine job...

Dad ..being a vet ... had a great deal of wisdom for you...


Just guessing here..

Not just that JW. Growing up dirt poor has a way of making people very protective of their money and where it comes from. I get the "Old soul" statement or "yours eyes show wisdom way beyond your age" a lot.

But the point still stands. Wordy said it best. Its the people with the middle of the road politics that will make the changes in this country. Because we learn to compromise on subjects instead of taking extremes.

[K C Muffin]

Originally Posted by youngwhippersnapper

I find it interesting that KC_muffin and Texkan haven't touched this post.

Must be to touchy a subject.

Naaaa - not really. I do believe our country is in trouble, but it's not just the war - it's crime in the streets, it's the poor that can't get by, it's people with the 'right' (but not the brain) to bash our leaders. The war was justified. The turn it's taken may not be, but I stand by my troops. If an error has been made, it's the same stupid intel. Why 'they' keep listening is beyond me. I don't disagree that an egrigious error was made, but it wasn't in going into this war in the first place. I have two sons in their 20's, one with a baby. I would never want to worry like I know Sgt. T's mom does. I would never want my daughter in law or grandchildren to worry like I know Sgt. T's wife and children do. I don't have anything to add to the discussion. That's why I'm not chiming in. Not cuz it's touchy.

[jeezeweeze]

Originally Posted by K C Muffin

Naaaa - not really. I do believe our country is in trouble, but it's not just the war - it's crime in the streets, it's the poor that can't get by, it's people with the 'right' (but not the brain) to bash our leaders. The war was justified. The turn it's taken may not be, but I stand by my troops. If an error has been made, it's the same stupid intel. Why 'they' keep listening is beyond me. I don't disagree that an egrigious error was made, but it wasn't in going into this war in the first place. I have two sons in their 20's, one with a baby. I would never want to worry like I know Sgt. T's mom does. I would never want my daughter in law or grandchildren to worry like I know Sgt. T's wife and children do. I don't have anything to add to the discussion. That's why I'm not chiming in. Not cuz it's touchy.

Ouch KC ...that hurt

I hope that experience... has taught me to be rational ... Not in everything I know that ..but in some things I feel I know a tiny bit..

I have said I am pro military and support our troops ...They are doing their job just as my husband did when he went to Nam twice..and they will continue to do so for as long as

The first time he went ...I had 2 small children ... and never thought once he was not doing the right thing...as a matter of fact... PRIDE was rampant in our household...and we never , ever questioned it... when he went the 2nd time ...I had 3 young children...same response ... we were a military family... and proud of it... as a matter of fact ...when the demonstrations started against the war...we were furious...and to this day....I don't know how Jane Fonda is still breathing....at least Cindy Sheehan didn't go to uhhhhh.... well lets see.... where is the enemy headquarters.....?? Bagdad ??...Fonda went to Hanoi with POW's at the Hoa Lo.. prison...better known as the Hanoi Hilton.. I feel kinda sorry for Sheehan... she was just a mother... Fonda should be in prison for treason...anyway.. when my hubby came back we never discussed the war.....not once....he just wouldn't

One thing that did change the way we fight wars is the instant info we get as a nation... I feel that we don't need to know everything ...but alas...we have the ability to know it instantly..This got a start in the Vietnam conflict ..the nation started seeing what was going on immediately ...not days later... and almost witnessing not only our troops getting killed and injured( I would not watch it) ..... but innocent civilians being fried with Napalm... and our guys not being able to tell the difference...between enemy and innocents... we are now in the same predicament ...we are a nation that reveres life and those scenes are forever in our minds...but the Troops suffer the most... that is known as Post Traumatic Stress Syndrome...and trust me ...I know that very well..

The World War II reference... in some other posts... different times , different leaders...and we were sent to war to HELP our allies.....America didn't start it... but we finished it.... we had an ace in the hole and used it... and having used it ...bought us some time for peace.... This is no longer....it is days gone by..........FOREVER GONE...just to be remembered...

So I have a feeling of been there ..done that...Im not saying I am smarter than our leaders...I am just cynical about the whole thing... especially now after these years have gone by..... I have to say I liked GWB and supported his policies...but things change... and we all know... that "DOING THE SAME THING EXPECTING DIFFERENT RESULTS"..is futile to say the least...
Just remember....... WE LIVED THRU THE NIXON ADMINISTRATION... and as the TRUTH started leaking out about his mental state.... he was a nut case and to ME this is DEJAVU...all over again

[SGT T.]

For what its worth...
It's not a losing battle. I'm not losing a damn thing. We need to get over the whole blame thing here. It's like apologizing to the native Americans. We're SOOO far past it now. It no longer matters why we invaded. Whats done is done. If the United States wants this war to end correctly, we are going to need to stay the course. Its going to be a long hard fight. I would be willing to bet that if "billary" wins the election, she is not, I say again, NOT, going to end this war just as soon as she claims she is. She will see that we CANNOT afford to pack up and split right now.

For the record I would like to point your attention to the east of here, and tell you about another country I have visited. It was invaded too. The occupying army was not welcomed by the local population as they thought they would be, and an insurgency rose up. The invading army refused to change its tactics, and instead decided to punish the local population, using cruelty and fear as their primary weapons. Eventualy under pressure from the world community they withdrew from the invaded nation, and a void followed. That void was filled by many groups, each just as heavy handed and cruel as the last, until a group came to power that gave sanctuary to a small time bad guy who made his money in the illegal arms trade in Sudan. This bad guy took his money and his freedom to operate and set up camps all over this once occupied nation. He started a group called "The Foundation", but we still call it by its Arabic name, Al-Queda. That nation was, of course, Afghanistan.

Sorry for the history lesson, but sometimes I wonder if people remember these things. Those who forget the past are....

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by SGT T.

...For the record I would like to point your attention to the east of here, and tell you about another country I have visited. It was invaded too. The occupying army was not welcomed by the local population as they thought they would be, and an insurgency rose up. The invading army refused to change its tactics, and instead decided to punish the local population, using cruelty and fear as their primary weapons. Eventualy under pressure from the world community they withdrew from the invaded nation, and a void followed. That void was filled by many groups, each just as heavy handed and cruel as the last, until a group came to power that gave sanctuary to a small time bad guy who made his money in the illegal arms trade in Sudan. This bad guy took his money and his freedom to operate and set up camps all over this once occupied nation. He started a group called "The Foundation", but we still call it by its Arabic name, Al-Queda. That nation was, of course, Afghanistan.

Sorry for the history lesson, but sometimes I wonder if people remember these things. Those who forget the past are....

You leave out a lot of details in your history lesson, like that America advised and supplied arms and ammo to Bin Laden and his group as they fought with Russia. So, in your reference to that history lesson, how is what we did in supplying money, military tacticians, and weaponry to them any different to Iran supplying the same to the insurgents that are now fighting us?

It boiled down to that most of the world thought that Russia shouldn't be involved in that war in Afghanistan, just like most of the world thinks that we shouldn't be involved in Iraq.

This conflict in Iraq will never be "won." It might possibly be brought to manageable levels, but I'm not real sure about that. As long as we are there there will be insurgents that are determined to fight with us as an invading and occupying nation in that country.