Pres. of Iran to visit U.N.

[Army_of_One]

Perhaps he meant the man is not THERE himself on the ground killing troops.....?!? That's the only logical explanation for such a statement....

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by SGT T.

But for you to infer that Iran is NOT involved in the killing of American troops is just wrong. In the past month my Battalion has lost 4 people to these Iranian weapons, 2 others were severely injured, one a triple amputee, the other a double amputee. Don't think for a minute we don't know who's behind it.

.

How many people have you lost to weapons supplied by the US Army, State Department, or any manner of coalition troops back when we were arming everybody without question? I have no doubt the Shia and Sunni's are getting weapons from somewhere, but they sure got a head start from us. Not that it makes it right for arms to get imported from Iran, Saudi, China, ets but there's enough weapons routes. And oh btw, we invaded Iraq and I don't think Bush has ever claimed it was to improve the school system.

The original poster called the Iranian president responsible for the weapons when the little pipsqueak is not even the commander-in-chief of his country's army. He's a figurehead with no real power who politically was in deep-do-do until Bush made him a matyr in waiting. There has been no substantiation that the "official" Iranian government is suppling weapons to be used against our soldiers as much as some would want us to believe in the run up to have a reason to further expand this folly beyond the borders of Iraq. If it makes you comfortable to believe the Iranian government is behind it then so be it. I cannot begin to understand the frustration and situation you have been placed in.

But given the Army's and the Adminstration's propensity for not being completely honest, I prefer to not be led down this road again. My wish is that no more members of your unit nor any other units be further harmed in this thing. Members of my distant/ extended family have had to bury two young men and I know what their families are going through.

I have always tried to be respectful of you and your belief in the charge that you have been given even though I disagree with you and your fellow soldiers being stationed there. I expect the same courtesy from you.

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

That's the only logical explanation for such a statement....

Oh save the grandstanding for the recruitment spiel.

[Highwayman]

This is hard. On one hand we have a man on the ground in the middle of the fight with access is classified information. On the other a man with secondhand information and a political ax to grind.

This might keep me awake for awhiii….

[SGT T.]

Originally Posted by Outofdodge

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How many people have you lost to weapons supplied by the US Army, State Department, or any manner of coalition troops back when we were arming everybody without question? (None that I know of. 99% of the weapons used here by the bad guys are Russian or Local knock-offs. AK-47, Dragonovs, hell even the mortars used against us are Soviet block.)

I have no doubt the Shia and Sunni's are getting weapons from
somewhere, (LIKE IRAN?!) but they sure got a head start from us. (They did? Hmmm, as I recall, even back in Desert Storm we were blowing up Iraqs RUSSIAN tanks, not american ones. We were going to shoot down their RUSSIAN air force, oh but they did have some french made fighters in there too.) Not that it makes it right for arms to get imported from Iran, Saudi, China, ets but there's enough weapons routes. And oh btw, we invaded Iraq and I don't think Bush has ever claimed it was to improve the school system. (True, he hasn't made that claim. But why did the Soviets invade Afghanistan? Really? And how does that compare to Iraq? This is a relevant point to your arguement.)

The original poster called the Iranian president responsible for the weapons when the little pipsqueak is not even the commander-in-chief of his country's army. He's a figurehead with no real power who politically was in deep-do-do until Bush made him a matyr in waiting. There has been no substantiation that the "official" Iranian government is suppling weapons to be used against our soldiers as much as some would want us to believe in the run up to have a reason to further expand this folly beyond the borders of Iraq. (Send a figurehead with no real power to speak before a world body like the UN because...he...has...no...real power. RIIIIIIIGHT. Let me ask you this. Strictly hypotheticly... If an American Special Forces Group was sent to Mexico to train and equip rebels there in the use of advanced explosives and started killing mexican troops by the hundreds, do you think that the highest levels of the American gov't would know about it? And if they did know about, would they EVER acknowledge it?) If it makes you comfortable to believe the Iranian government is behind it then so be it. (It does not make me comfortable, but I believe it becaue I KNOW IT TO BE TRUE.) I cannot begin to understand the frustration and situation you have been placed in.

But given the Army's and the Adminstration's propensity for not being completely honest, I prefer to not be led down this road again. My wish is that no more members of your unit nor any other units be further harmed in this thing. (Agreed) Members of my distant/ extended family have had to bury two young men and I know what their families are going through.

I have always tried to be respectful of you and your belief in the charge that you have been given even though I disagree with you and your fellow soldiers being stationed there. I expect the same courtesy from you.

I deeply and honestly apologize if at any time I appeared to be disrespectful in my argument. This is a topic that I have a VERY strong intrest in, because I know that when I roll out the gate, should anything happen to me, it will be a snipers bullet, or it will be an EFP. They are camoflauged so well that the only way I'll know its there is when it goes off. I've seen too many people die because of this weapon, and its one we don't have a defense for. You have my respect due to your passionate argument, and your ability to see things from a different prospective, but please understand my passion in this debate and understand that no disrespect is intended or infered.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by SGT T.

Originally Posted by Outofdodge View Post
.

How many people have you lost to weapons supplied by the US Army, State Department, or any manner of coalition troops back when we were arming everybody without question? (None that I know of. 99% of the weapons used here by the bad guys are Russian or Local knock-offs. AK-47, Dragonovs, hell even the mortars used against us are Soviet block.)

Not to be a stickler, but this argument doesn't really hold water. It doesn't really matter what kind of weapons they are or who originally made them, his point was who supplied them. The U.S. has supplied AK-47's that are now missing.

THE Pentagon cannot account for 190,000 AK-47 rifles and pistols given to Iraqi security forces in 2004 and 2005, or about half the weapons earmarked for soldiers and police, according to a government report.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO), the investigative arm of the United States Congress, said in a report to House members that the defence department also cannot account for 135,000 items of body armour and 115,000 helmets reported to be issued to Iraqi forces as of 22 September, 2005.

source - The Scotsman - Half of all guns given to Iraqi forces by US go missing, Pentagon admits

There are other sources for this info as well, this was the first and easiest for me to quote.

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by SGT T.

I deeply and honestly apologize if at any time I appeared to be disrespectful in my argument. This is a topic that I have a VERY strong intrest in,

And I apologize if I took it a little too personally. I cannot begin to understand and relate what you deal with and what you see every day. I have no doubt those weapons being used to kill and maim the troops are coming from somewhere and if I was in your boots, I would probably have the same feelings you have. It is a lot easier to look at the forest when you're not standing at the base of a tree holding the chain saw.

Everyone that I knew that were in Iraq are now, either home, stationed elsewhere, or worse-dead. The only *news* I see now from the front is what you post. I don't mean to sound morbid, but I see a news report saying another soldier has been hurt in Iraq, I will admit to a nagging thought in back of my mind and hope that it wasn't another member of your unit, and specifically you.

And whatever our differences on the view of the situation, I know you think you are doing the right thing. My only axe to grind, despite what Highway may think, is I want you and the rest of the forces serving there home. You did what you were charged with doing and the civilian leadership screwed the pooch. IMO, as long as you're there putting your life on the line, what passes for a central government in Iraq has no incentive to get it's act together.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by Outofdodge

...My only axe to grind, despite what Highway may think, is I want you and the rest of the forces serving there home....

And despite what you think of me, I want them home too. But I believe that if they leave too soon that they will end up going back in larger numbers with a harder fight and more losses.

[Outofdodge]

Originally Posted by Highwayman

And despite what you think of me

I think you could have worded that differently. In spite of divergent approaches and opinions to issues, I consider you to be a "stand up" guy and one that I would be proud to call a friend.

[Army_of_One]

So what you are saying is....despite your difference of ideology he could dip into the scotch with you.