My Recent letter to Sam Brownback

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

Can't disagree with you on that point. It's just a double edged sword though. What about THE jobs no one wants to do? That's why a guest worker program of some type might be OK.

I agree with you there. A guest worker program would probably be a good thing. At least there would be a legal record of the worker and he or she would be paying their fair share of Federal & State taxes & Social Security and Medicare taxes.

No more paying the illegals in cash under the table with no withholdings.

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by TexKan

Therefore illegals keep the wage low and the demand high for illegal, unskilled labor.

That's far worse than stealing - it's knocking out the possiblitly for legal citizens to have the job at a fair wage that will be there whether the illegals are there or not. Illegals remove the opportunity for American workers. The real tragedy in all this is the corporations are allowed to do this and encouraged to do it by the steady stream of illegal workers. I don't understand why there isn't a higher standard of morals in the corporate setting.

1st point is legal citizens "to have the job at a fair wage". What is a fair wage for say working at excell on the line? Is $11.00 an hour a fair wage and would you work there for that fair wage? It is basically unskilled labor so how much do you think that job is worth? If the companies don't get the cheap labor here they move it to where the cheap labor is. Look at the automotive industry. Union workers demanding 25.00 an hour to put a couple of bolts on a car when it rolls by on the assembly line and then bitch about having to work overtime. Is it a WONDER why our jobs go overseas?

2nd. WE as consumers can boycott places that we KNOW use illegals but we don't. Who here refuses to buy beef that comes from EXELL? Probably very few people...so WE allow the corporations to be successful with OUR dollars even though we KNOW they hire illegals. Who here buys ORANGES from California. Do you think they were picked by illegals? My guess is YES but we still support them by purchasing the oranges. In the long run We are the one's that allow it to happen.

[Detector]

This is drifting off Bubba's thread, but illegals don't "steal" our jobs. They allow corporations in America to pay for cheap illegal labor rather than pay what the average American worker would expect as fair compensation for that type of job. Therefore illegals keep the wage low and the demand high for illegal, unskilled labor.

Pretty much says it all.

[Bubba]

When I first moved back to this area in the early '90's after being in the Army then living & working in Oklahoma then Texas, I got a job as a Customer Service Manager at Hasting's when it was still in the Mall($7/hr.). I didn't make much per hour so I decided to go to work at National (then HyPlains Beef) as a cold beef pusher($9/hr.). It was pretty hard work compared to helping people find music or books. But, it paid better than Hasting's and I was young and wasn't afraid of manual labor. I watched HyPlains Beef go from a small company that sent out quartered beef to the company it is today with the fabricated boxed beef going out the door. I worked my way through the newer bigger company to hamburger room making hamburger to Quality Control. I then decided I didn't need the extra money and working in the cold anymore. I then went to work for the cable company in Dodge City which was TCI at that time, which only paid $8.25 per hour. I learned new skills and was then able to get a job a few years later for an Electric company as an apprentice electrician making $10 per hour. Got more experience and my Jouneymans lisence and made more money yet.

My point being, everybody has to start somewhere, if you work hard and learn new skills as you go other opportunities will present themselves and you find yourself moving up. You shouldn't automatically think that working in a packing plant is beneath you.

I think part of the problem now is that the younger generation all want to make $100K per year and they want it right now! I'm starting to get off-topic on my own thread so I will end this post now.

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by Bubba

My point being, everybody has to start somewhere, if you work hard and learn new skills as you go other opportunities will present themselves and you find yourself moving up. You shouldn't automatically think that working in a packing plant is beneath you.

I think part of the problem now is that the younger generation all want to make $100K per year and they want it right now! I'm starting to get off-topic on my own thread so I will end this post now.

I agree about the younger generation wanting to start at the top.

[Highwayman]

It sounded like a standard form letter to me. I’ve seen enough of them.

Originally Posted by TexKan

This is drifting off Bubba's thread, but illegals don't "steal" our jobs. They allow corporations in America to pay for cheap illegal labor rather than pay what the average American worker would expect as fair compensation for that type of job. Therefore illegals keep the wage low and the demand high for illegal, unskilled labor.

One example of lowering wages that comes to mind is a buddy of mine that moved to Texas back in the 70’s. He took a job pumping gas and the pay was less than minimum wage. When he questioned it, he was told that if he didn’t take it for that wage, an illegal would. It works that way in construction too. Americans did pick the fruit until Mexicans were brought in at a lower wage and the Americans were let go.

[TexKan]

Must be all supply and demand..............that's the only thing I can think of. I don't consider working the kill floor unskilled - I hate that term but I understand it's meaning. If you collect garbage ya need to be good at what you do. The auto industry got shafted due to the unions and the demands - you are right. I don't remember there being an Excel when I was growing up. Course now there are many more mouths to feed so I'm sure we just would starve to death if Excel were made to follow rules and got pissy and moved to Mexico or Taiwan.

Laws are put into place to be followed - guidelines are established to insure fair and equal hiring practices. I shouldn't have to boycott anything. If it's in the US it should be held to the US standard. I persoanlly buy oranges from Texas but I wouldn't care either way. It's not what WE do as consumers that makes the corporations inside or outside the laws of immigration. It's what the INS doesn't do and what the HR person does and knows and sweeps under the carpet that irritates me.

You have a valid point but it just would be nice if SOMEBODY followed the damn rules.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by TexKan

... I persoanlly buy oranges from Texas but I wouldn't care either way......

Often produce is grown in other countries with herbicides and pesticides that are illegal here in the states.

[TexKan]

Yeah Texas can be whole nuther kuntry.....LOL LOL
I'm sure they got an "american" worker checkin to make sure that we as consumers don't digest any herbacide we shouldn't.......probably protect fruit and vegies better than they do our own borders.......

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Highwayman

Often produce is grown in other countries with herbicides and pesticides that are illegal here in the states.

Stuff like DDT. I was reading the other day about a doctor that was doing some research and his research showed that DDT wasn't as bad for you as it was first thought to be when it got banned. In fact he showed in several instances that DDT was actually good for you! He went so far as to call it vitamin DDT! Just shows how the government can take something that works great at what it's supposed to do and ban the product because it is supposedly bad for you.