Illegal Protests or "Vigil"?

[DCFan]

How many countries invite people in to work, give them a tax number to file their taxes, make them register with selective service and then arrest them when they do all that? This is a puzzleing debate for me. I am trying to figure out who is right. The mainline churches don't agree with most of what you all are saying. I am trying to figure out if you are struggleing with your church the way I am struggleing with mine.

[DCFan]

Whose Dr. Gunn? Non of the mainstream churches in this country has "laws" that members are required to follow. There are certain beliefs that people are expected to follow. My question has been how much does your faith guide your position on the immigration debate in this country?

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by DCFan

How many countries invite people in to work, give them a tax number to file their taxes, make them register with selective service and then arrest them when they do all that? This is a puzzleing debate for me. I am trying to figure out who is right. The mainline churches don't agree with most of what you all are saying. I am trying to figure out if you are struggleing with your church the way I am struggleing with mine.

It's a complicated issue with the Church. For example: "As a matter of public policy, the Catholic Church does not support open borders, illegal immigration or even “amnesty” in the sense of a blanket grant of legal status to the undocumented. It believes that nations have a legitimate responsibility to promote the common good by denying admission to certain migrants and by regulating the flow of all those who are seeking to enter."

BUT on the other hand:" The church’s reverence for immigrants – as human beings – uniquely qualifies it to help the nation understand “what is just” for them. What does the church know that it can teach the nation? It knows that most migrants do not come for malign or whimsical reasons, but to exercise their rights. As Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio has put it, migration can best be seen as an act of self-determination. In fleeing inhuman conditions and seeking a better life for their families, migrants exercise their human dignity; in a sense, they become fully human."

[DCFan]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

It's a complicated issue with the Church. For example: "As a matter of public policy, the Catholic Church does not support open borders, illegal immigration or even “amnesty” in the sense of a blanket grant of legal status to the undocumented. It believes that nations have a legitimate responsibility to promote the common good by denying admission to certain migrants and by regulating the flow of all those who are seeking to enter."

BUT on the other hand:" The church’s reverence for immigrants – as human beings – uniquely qualifies it to help the nation understand “what is just” for them. What does the church know that it can teach the nation? It knows that most migrants do not come for malign or whimsical reasons, but to exercise their rights. As Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio has put it, migration can best be seen as an act of self-determination. In fleeing inhuman conditions and seeking a better life for their families, migrants exercise their human dignity; in a sense, they become fully human."

That makes some sense. What do you think of the Catholic church's position? If Bishop DiMarzio is right don't we have the responsibility to look for a fair solution that benefits the most people on both sides of the border?

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by DCFan

Whose Dr. Gunn? Non of the mainstream churches in this country has "laws" that members are required to follow. There are certain beliefs that people are expected to follow. My question has been how much does your faith guide your position on the immigration debate in this country?

I can't speak for anyone else on this but since you ask...What guides ME on the immigration debate is pretty simple...

1. National Security: If we don't close the borders who knows what and who can come into our country.
2. Crime: Look up the crime stats of crimes committed by illegal immigrants in our country. Reference how much of the penal population is illegal immigrants, all at tax payer expense. I would like our city to be a safe place for my family to exist but I don't feel that way right now and a good part of that has to do with the illegals that are here with NO RESPECT for OUR LAWS.
3. My Pocketbook: Illegal immigration costs me and all other tax payers in many, many ways.
4. It puts a strain on our school system.

I believe in being humane to all people but it works both ways. A lot of people come here illegally to work because it's a better life but then they do bad things by TAKING ADVANTAGE of our country and our citizens by lying, cheating and stealing all the while we go to work everyday, work our asses off, pay taxes so they can CONTINUE to lie, cheat and steal. WHO is the sinner here?

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by DCFan

That makes some sense. What do you think of the Catholic church's position? If Bishop DiMarzio is right don't we have the responsibility to look for a fair solution that benefits the most people on both sides of the border?

The Church doesn't keep my family safe. The Church is there for guidance and only looks at the immigration from the "oh the poor souls" angle. They put helping them above everything else. Personally I will put my families safety first. If the Church REALLY wants to help the illegals they would help bus them back to Mexico and come here the RIGHT way. When you aid someone breaking the law you are only enabling them. I do not put church law above the law I live under at a citizen.

[DCFan]

Do you think that the same people who are working hard at the plants are the same ones who are committing violent and drug crimes?

[DCFan]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

The Church doesn't keep my family safe. The Church is there for guidance and only looks at the immigration from the "oh the poor souls" angle. They put helping them above everything else. Personally I will put my families safety first. If the Church REALLY wants to help the illegals they would help bus them back to Mexico and come here the RIGHT way. When you aid someone breaking the law you are only enabling them. I do not put church law above the law I live under at a citizen.

You don't think that the church promotes the following of the civil laws in our society?

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by DCFan

Do you think that the same people who are working hard at the plants are the same ones who are committing violent and drug crimes?

Some of them yes. If not them it's some of their kids or relation that they bring in with them. Where would you suppose the gang banger's here in Dodge come from? Do you think they are home grown?

[DCFan]

Some of them are and they are not all Hispanic or illegal. I know there are problems but it comes back to the same question. What is the best way to help the situation? The churches position to help all people live better lives or to send people to thier home countries and help ourselves only.