Yes, Another Gun Free Zone....A lot of Good that Sign Did

[Zeb]

Yes, it was a mental case.



Wordy, I am sorry. I only know what I am told by company people and the reasons why or why not AT THE TIME.

I am not a concealed carry type of guy and don't claim to know much about guns or laws concerning them.

However our signs don't state any words on them, it is only a symbol for "No Firearms" concealed or not

[wordsmythe]

Unless the sign follows these SPECIFIC requirments then the sinage is not enforceable.

http://www.ksag.org/files/shared/con...ry.signage.pdf

K.A.R. 16-11-7. Signs.

(a) Each sign posted pursuant to either paragraph (a)(2) or paragraph (a)(3) of L. 2006, ch. 210, § 8, and amendments thereto, shall contain the graphic in the document titled “personal and family protection act:: required signage for

K.A.R. 16-11-7,” dated October 19, 2006, and hereby adopted by reference.
(b) The size of the sign shall be eight inches by eight inches or larger. If the sign is eight inches by eight inches, the size of the graphic adopted by reference in subsection (a) shall be six inches in diameter. If the sign is larger than eight inches by eight inches, the size of the graphic shall be proportional to the size of the sign.

(c) Each sign shall meet all of the following requirements:
(1) The background shall be white.
(2) The portion of the graphic depicting the handgun shall be black.
(3) The portion of the graphic depicting the circle and diagonal slash across the handgun shall be red.
(4) No text shall be placed within the one-inch area surrounding the graphic.
(d) Each sign shall be displayed in a manner that makes the sign reasonably likely to come to the attention of persons entering the premises. (Authorized by L. 2006, Ch. 32, § 16 and L. 2006, Ch. 210, § 8; implementing L. 2006, Ch. 210, § 8; effective P-
_________________.)

•

Can business owners restrict the concealed carry of firearms by Licensees
through posting their property?

o

Answer: Yes. However, as per K.S.A. 75-7c11 (as amended by H.B. 2528,
published May 3, 2007 in Kansas Register Vol. 26, No. 18, p. 666) private
business owners as well as city, county, or political subdivisions may only
restrict the concealed carry of firearms within the building or buildings of that entity.

•

If I’m licensed to carry concealed and I enter a business that is not posted as
prohibiting concealed carry, do I have to leave if the owner or an employee sees
my gun and asks me to leave?

o

Answer: Yes. While you would not be violating the concealed carry law, if
you refuse to leave an establishment that has asked you to leave, you could be cited for trespassing. Trespassing occurs when you remain in an
establishment after the owner or employee tells you to leave (K.S.A. 21-
3721).

•

Can an employer restrict the concealed carry of firearms by Licensees?

o

Answer: Yes. Through personnel policies an employer may prohibit
Licensees from carrying concealed while on the premises of the employer’s
business or while otherwise engaged in the duties of the Licensee’s employ
except that employer’s are not allowed to prohibit Licensee’s from storing
firearms in the Licensee’s private means of conveyance even if parked on the employer’s premises.

- Cities and counties still have the authority to regulate the open carry of
firearms “on one’s person.” These local regulations apply to concealed
carry licensees as well as the general public.

��

Posting of certain properties

- The requirements for “no concealed carry” signage also changed with the passage of HB 2528.

In order to bring charges of unlawful concealed carry against a licensee, those properties previously enumerated under

K.S.A. 75-7c10 (schools, bars, churches, school & professional athletic
events, churches, etc.) must now be posted. One exception to this is the
provision regarding carrying in or on areas prohibited by Federal law;
these areas are under no obligation to post their properties.

These are just some parts of the act and information I glanced through. Note in that last bullet point that the sinage is referred to as no CONCEALED carry and not referred to as no firearms.

Basically if you put up a 16"x20" sign on your door saying NO CONCEALED CARRY ALLOWED HERE! I can still carry and not be legally prosecuted. There must be a legal sign.

[Value Pack]

The Sign, if we are to believe the Kansas Attorney General, only does the following:

Question: (from the website of Ks Attorney General)

"Can business owners restrict the concealed carry of firearms by Licensees through posting their property?"

Answer: Yes. However, as per K.S.A. 75-7c11 (as amended by H.B. 2528, published May 3, 2007 in Kansas Register Vol. 26, No. 18, p. 666) private business owners as well as city, county, or political subdivisions may only restrict the concealed carry of firearms within the building or buildings of that entity.

As I read this, the rifle could still be carried into the business, but the owner and/or any employee could ask that person to leave if the business did not like that.

When USD 443 put up their "Gun-free Zone" signs, they added the words "This includes concealed carry" These signs cost extra, and if one is to go strictly by the AG office's requirement was both unnecessary and by adding the extra wording may compromise them in a court of law.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Value Pack

...When USD 443 put up their "Gun-free Zone" signs, they added the words "This includes concealed carry" These signs cost extra, and if one is to go strictly by the AG office's requirement was both unnecessary and by adding the extra wording may compromise them in a court of law.

I was thinking the same thing when I first saw them. Although, I wouldn't really want to be the person to test their validity in court.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by Value Pack

....."Can business owners restrict the concealed carry of firearms by Licensees through posting their property?"

Answer: Yes. However, as per K.S.A. 75-7c11 (as amended by H.B. 2528, published May 3, 2007 in Kansas Register Vol. 26, No. 18, p. 666) private business owners as well as city, county, or political subdivisions may only restrict the concealed carry of firearms within the building or buildings of that entity.

As I read this, the rifle could still be carried into the business, but the owner and/or any employee could ask that person to leave if the business did not like that....

As I read this and what Wordy posted I see statutes that are specifically written to deal with concealed carry and not the situation that Zeb is referring to. I believe that event was maybe three years ago and I’m going to assume that someone in that case did some checking for that situation under the laws at the time. There may be something else not related to CCW that covers his situation. And whatever was looked at then needs to be reexamined because provisions in the CCW law might have changed it.

We still have the common sense issue that if someone, mentally unstable or not, that is intent on shooting up the place isn’t going to care about some sign. They aren’t going to jumping through hoops and waiting for a permission slip to hide a gun under their coat either.

I think that when laws get written there is too much attention to an object (gun) and too little attention paid to intentions and actions.

[Detector]

The sign Zeb refers too prohibits ANY firearm. I have seen the signs that specifically target CC.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by Detector

The sign Zeb refers too prohibits ANY firearm. I have seen the signs that specifically target CC.

That’s all fine and good Detector. But do you think the man in question that Zeb posted about would have paid attention to the sign? Wasn’t the reason the sign was put up more about prosecuting after the fact?

[Detector]

Wasn’t the reason the sign was put up more about prosecuting after the fact?

Yes it was. Personally I'd feel safer knowing someone, besides the bad guy, might be carrying a gun. I think the signs, like the one above, aimed at the CC are stupid. In my opinion it shows the owner has given very little thought to the issue.

[Bubba]

The sign that Detector posted has one problem, it is not a valid sign under the Kansas CCH law statute.


This is the proper signage for prohibiting concealed handguns on private property... http://www.ksag.org/files/shared/con...ry.signage.pdf

Found at the Attorney General website here... Office of the Kansas Attorney General - Concealed Carry

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by Bubba

The sign that Detector posted has one problem, it is not a valid sign under the Kansas CCH law statute......

Bubba, I personally don’t care if someone’s sigh isn’t to code. If a merchant wants to exercise his property rights and ban guns I can respect and honor that. I’ll respect his decision even if he just scrawls a note on a piece of cardboard with a felt tip marker complete with misspellings. No problem.

I expect that same merchant to respect and honor my decision to take my business somewhere else.

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