Bargain Flats (Apartments)?

[357 mag]

Originally Posted by JayhawkMom

And this nice, quiet neighborhood USE to be 3 blocks off of Commance on 7th street.

Go take a drive down 7th now......

If you can fit your vehicle through the narrow street from the drunken parking!

[Army_of_One]

Originally Posted by JayhawkMom

It's not always about choice......and I'll give an example:

My Mom and Dad bought a house 45 years ago and have lived in it ever since. It was their home; they didn't want to move. They loved their house.

The house was in a nice, quiet neighborhood. Everyone knew their neighbors. They had neighbors over for supper. The kids all played together, tag football, catch,etc.

My Dad (god rest him) died in 1999. My mother continues to be attached to the house; that is where her memories are, this is her home.

However, now the old neighbors have moved, and in their place are people who have not kept up their houses, have junk in their yards, don't mow, play boom boxes all hours of the day and night, sell drugs out of the house across the street, have vicious animals that run loose all over the neighborhood, etc.

She's 80 now, and cannot afford to move. Whose choice was that? Certainly not hers, but she's forced to live with it.

I think you get my point........

And you are right JH MOM. I will never argue that point. The demographics and crime area's of a place shift with time which is unfortunate for home owners that take care of their home and want a peaceful, safe place to live. I'm talking about the people that MOVE into bad area's though...not so much the bad area moves to them. It's unfortunate that has happened to her mom. I would tell her to put a security system on her house.

[JayhawkMom]

Originally Posted by 357 mag

If you can fit your vehicle through the narrow street from the drunken parking!

You have definitely been down 7th Ave....and know what I'm talking about!!

[357 mag]

Yup, made the mistake of taking 7th from Taco Bell, needed to run home and didn't want to drive all the way to 14th and planned on hitting 6th but figured 7th would work! Never again! I'll go to 6th or 14th to get up north! LOL

[Binky Bainbridge]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

I believe people have choices. When you drop out of school or choose to play video games instead of study you make a choice. When you put that needle in your arm or put your mouth to that pipe you make a choice...when you have sex out of wedlock and don't use birth control you make a choice....If drink and drive you make a choice....life is full of choices and in our country you HAVE the RIGHT to choose...so in many cases people end up the way they are because of choices they make. It's part of who we are...

Ao1 you highlight the problems, (thats the easy bit, we can all see those), but the one question you never seem to address is: WHY?

Why does someone drop out of school?
Why does someone play video games instead of studying?
Why does someone take drugs?
Why does someone have sex out of wedlock and have a child (possibly children by different fathers)?
Why does someone drink & drive?

If we simply look at the problem without trying to resolve the underlying issues then nothing is going to change - we are doomed to see the cycle of problems grow ever larger. If we are not even prepared to acknowledge there are underlying issues that need resolving then we've got no chance.
Merely chanting the mantra that "life is full of choices" or "people have choices" gets us nowhere.

You repeatedly use the word "choice" as though we all have the same choices but that assumes that everyone sets off from the same starting point in life - the fact is they don't. For some the word "choice" is not an option, they are given very little choice due to social/economic/moral circumstances they're born into. Many of us are lucky enough to have the luxury of being able to choose from the menu of opportunity but for others its simply looking for scraps on the highway of life and possibly get killed by a passing truck.

US society is obsessed with money and material possessions - "success" is measured in dollars and despite the US being predominantly a Christian country some people seem unwilling to recognise the need to help those less well off than themselves. As I remember, and I don't want to get too heavily into religion here, Jesus seemed to have more time for, and care more, for those marginalised by society than he did for those with wealth and power - a lesson for us all perhaps?

[Detector]

US society is obsessed with money and material possessions - "success" is measured in dollars and despite the US being predominantly a Christian country some people seem unwilling to recognise the need to help those less well off than themselves. As I remember, and I don't want to get too heavily into religion here, Jesus seemed to have more time for, and care more, for those marginalised by society than he did for those with wealth and power - a lesson for us all perhaps?

Binky, I was with you until this part. I've got to call you on this one. While I do agree America has become "obsessed" with money, It's been my experience that the Christians are the few threads of American generosity holding us together.

Go to a blood drive some time and I'll bet the majority ARE of Christian background.

Visit the people freely working any disaster relief and you'll find the majority ARE of Christian background.

The vast majority of quality Americans I know ARE of Christian background.

It's for this very reason I just don't understand why some Americans have declared war on Christan's. Today it has almost become a bad thing to admit your Christan background, and as the number of Americans fall to the peer pressure from Atheists, so falls the quality of America. We now persecute those who call themselves Christians, and embrace the free thought that opposes that which is at the very foundation of where America comes from. We seem hell bent on self destruction.

The biggest mistake of our founding fathers was to bestow the power upon us to destroy ourselves.

[Tee]

Originally Posted by Binky Bainbridge

Ao1 you highlight the problems, (thats the easy bit, we can all see those), but the one question you never seem to address is: WHY?

Why does someone drop out of school?
Why does someone play video games instead of studying?
Why does someone take drugs?
Why does someone have sex out of wedlock and have a child (possibly children by different fathers)?
Why does someone drink & drive?

If we simply look at the problem without trying to resolve the underlying issues then nothing is going to change - we are doomed to see the cycle of problems grow ever larger. If we are not even prepared to acknowledge there are underlying issues that need resolving then we've got no chance.
Merely chanting the mantra that "life is full of choices" or "people have choices" gets us nowhere.

You repeatedly use the word "choice" as though we all have the same choices but that assumes that everyone sets off from the same starting point in life - the fact is they don't. For some the word "choice" is not an option, they are given very little choice due to social/economic/moral circumstances they're born into.

(remember, you brought up religeon)

Ever since Eve tempted Adam with sin, God said we'd have the choice to choose; Good or Evil. The long and difficult path over the short path. SOme choose the short path, some choose evil. Is it always societys fault? Is there always an underlying reason relation to social-economic curcumstances? No! Some people just make the wrong decisions.

It will never be Utopia, no matter how much we analyze the reason, no matter how much money we throw at it. Everyone needs to make mistakes, to learn. I did, I learned. Some people don't. Some continually choose the short and easy path. But I believe that God speaks to them, giving them opportunities to do the right thing, yet they turn their backs on him.

US society is obsessed with money and material possessions - "success" is measured in dollars and despite the US being predominantly a Christian country some people seem unwilling to recognise the need to help those less well off than themselves. As I remember, and I don't want to get too heavily into religion here, Jesus seemed to have more time for, and care more, for those marginalised by society than he did for those with wealth and power - a lesson for us all perhaps?

Neither Jesus nor God condemned wealth, only the means by which it was obtained, or the act of trusting in ones wealth. In fact in Genesis 13:2, we are told that Abraham had great wealth. In Job 42:10 we are taught that God blesses Job for a second time, with great wealth and material possessions. All throughout Deuteronomy, Proverbs, and Ecclesiastes, wealth is seen as evidence of Gods blessings. In the bible, where wealthy people are condemned, we are told not to "trust in wealth" but "trust in God". Furthermore, those people are condemned for the means by which they obtained their wealth, or worked for their income, or sought wealth through fraud.

Proverbs 30:8-9 and Hosea 13:6 teach that wealth tempts us to forget about God and to trust in money to solve our problems, and that we can rely on mans ability to solve his own problems, without God.

Proverbs 22:29 teaches us that hard work brings prosperity. Proverbs 12:11 teach us not to be lazy in our work, and Proverbs 16:3 teaches us to commit to your work, serve the Lord and you will succeed. Proverbs 21:5 and 21:20 teach us about saving our money to obtain prosperity and not to be the foolish man, that spends whatever he gets.

God says laziness, gluttony and neglect bring poverty and Proverbs (10:4, 13:4, 19:15, 20:13, 23:21) teaches that some people are poor because of improper habits or apathy.

While I sincerely believe that some people are poor through no fault of their own, I also believe that some are not. Some have made some incorrect choices. If we rescue those that are poor because of incorrect choices, what have they learned? They've learned that there are no consequences for poor choices; It's society's job to feed me, Life owes me a living. This worsens there position, slows their growth and hampers their prosperity.

Call it tough love or whatever you want but there is a difference between charity and development, between job creation and welfare. It is good to help people and to teach people the skills they need to succeed in todays world, but what if they have no desire to succeed? They never will. Can society give them that desire? I argue that it can't. Life is not suppose to be "fair", irrespective of the initiative that we put into it.

And for those that are poor through no fault of their own, I believe some very strict means testing prior to welfare, followed by some skills instruction and close monitoring. I think their desire should be tested, and retested. If they lack the desire, then they are on their own, allowed to fall flat on their face, go hungry- that's the only thing that will give them the desire.

And for the very few that make millions through hard work, invention or creativity, ho-rah for them. That possibility should be an inspiration for us all. They should be allowed to enjoy their riches, and give to charities of their own free will. They should serve as a beacon for all of us, to show us what is possible if we work hard and try to obtain the dream. They should not be punished or admonished for their achievements. God rewards those who acheive wealth through hard work. Who are we to second guess God?

[jeezeweeze]

WOW Tee !!!

That post is GREAT!!!!

[K C Muffin]

I agree with you totally, Tee - I just don't know where the money will come from for the monitoring. Used to be that folks were too proud to take handouts unless they were down to their last dollar. Somehow society has changed and it's OK to take handouts. It used to be that if you received free lunches at school, you ate alone and were avoided at recess. Now, we're taught that it's wrong to "make" people feel "bad" because of their decisions that caused the problem in the first place. So, yes, the people have become a "gimme" society, but we've created it ourselves with our "feel good" teachings.

[Binky Bainbridge]

Originally Posted by Detector

Binky, I was with you until this part. I've got to call you on this one. While I do agree America has become "obsessed" with money, It's been my experience that the Christians are the few threads of American generosity holding us together.

I wouldn't disagree Detector. I said the US was a predominantly Christian country but some people in the US, and I'm not picking out Christians in particular here, simply measure "success" by monetary wealth and the accumulation of material possessions, and don't give a damn about those less well off than themselves. For many, the US is seen as the home of Mammon.

As I said I didn't want to get heavily into religion otherwise we could end up quoting biblical texts to each other until the cows come home, but just as Tee mentioned a few, may I mention a few that raise some tough challenging questions for those who consider themselves geuine practising Christians:

"Then Jesus said to his disciples, 'I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'"
Matthew 19:23-24

"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." Matthew 6:24

"People who want to get rich fall into temptation and a trap and into many foolish and harmful desires that plunge men into ruin and destruction. For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs." 1 Timothy 6:9-10

"Then [Jesus] said to them, 'Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions.'" Luke 12:15

"Wealth is worthless in the day of wrath, but righteousness delivers from death." Proverbs 11:4

"For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and lose his own soul? Or what will a man give in exchange for his soul?" Matthew 16:26