Court Gives Final Ruling on DC Gun Ban

[Binky Bainbridge]

Originally Posted by Tee

There are guns in every nation, even in Britain.

Sure there are guns in Britain but I don't feel the need to carry a weapon nor do the French, Germans, Dutch, Italians, Spanish, Belgians, Irish, Danish, Swedish, Finnish, Austrians, Swiss, Portuguese, Hungarians, Poles, Australians, etc etc - so why are you so paranoid?
Or perhaps you imagine you're still back in the days of the Wild West?
In Britain even our policeman don't carry guns unless they are called to an incident where someone is armed.

What does prevail, as a result of what the Brits did to us many many years ago...

Correction, you were English Colonists then - it was English vs English

is the premise that the government cannot be trusted to have overwhelming power over the people

Why cannot your government be trusted? I thought you lived in a democracy, you're always trying to export it to other countries! - or is this a form of paranoia that extends into an irrational fear of government, at least that's what it sounds like to me.

Despite your attempt to classify the U.S. as uncivilized

The US and its people are very civilised, but as a non-American, I find it very strange that you have this obsession with guns, which the rest of the civilised world does not share.

It was the Brits that made us the way we are, with respect to gun laws. I'm pretty sure you know the story.

Oh come on Tee, let's be grown up about this, are you really blaming us Brits for your obsession with guns! Next you'll be telling me that you've got fairies living at the bottom of your garden under the apple tree .....

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by Tee

....It was the Brits that made us the way we are, with respect to gun laws. I'm pretty sure you know the story.

Originally Posted by Binky Bainbridge

....Oh come on Tee, let's be grown up about this, are you really blaming us Brits for your obsession with guns! Next you'll be telling me that you've got fairies living at the bottom of your garden under the apple tree .....

Blame Binky? That’s an interesting choice of words. Ever hear of a guy named Blackstone? If not, you should have.

D. The Underlying Purpose of the Right to Keep and Bear Arms According to Sir William Blackstone

Another important source further illustrating this point is William Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, in which he explains the underlying purpose of the right to keep and bear arms as understood in the English common law.[25] According to Blackstone, [Page 209] the liberties of Englishmen are reducible into three principal rights: the right of personal security, the right of personal liberty, and the right of private property.[26] However, Blackstone asserted that any declaration of these rights would be meaningless "if the constitution had provided no other method to secure their actual enjoyment."[27]

The common law, therefore, developed barriers against infringement upon these rights.[28] According to Blackstone, whenever the government infringed upon any of the three principal rights, the people could employ certain auxiliary rights to ameliorate the problem.[29] First, the people had the right to apply to the court system for redress of injuries.[30] Second, the people had the right to "petition[] the king, or either house of parliament, for the redress of grievances."[31] However, if these branches of government failed to provide the necessary relief, then the people had the right of having and using arms for their defense and self-preservation "when the sanctions of society and laws are found insufficient to restrain the violence of oppression."[32]

According to Blackstone, English common law recognized the right to own guns as a way for an individual to protect himself and "the three great and primary rights"[33] in the face of an actual violation or attack by a tyrannical government.[34] In essence, under the common law, individual gun ownership is to serve as the final safeguard when the government fails to protect the rights of the people.[35]

Legal scholars, judges, and lawyers in colonial times and after the ratification of the Constitution used Blackstone's Commentaries as a reference to help them understand the various aspects of the common law.[36] Blackstone's ideas concerning the underlying purpose [Page 210] of the right to keep and bear arms must have reflected and significantly influenced the colonists' understanding of this right under the common law, and led them to take the actions they pursued in the Revolutionary War and in the drafting of the Second Amendment.[37]

THE SECOND AMENDMENT: A GUARD FOR OUR FUTURE SECURITY

I see everything is clam and serine over there with your civilized view on weapons.

Knife-Crime Spree Sweeps Britain, Leaving Victims and Fear in Its Wake - US News and World Report

Watertown Daily Times | British crime wave

Teen stabbed to death while Gordon Brown is on TV talking tough on knife crime - Telegraph

[KONQ RADIO]

Why cannot your government be trusted? I thought you lived in a democracy, you're always trying to export it to other countries! - or is this a form of paranoia that extends into an irrational fear of government, at least that's what it sounds like to me.

We trust them better knowing that they know their countrymen are armed.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by KONQ RADIO

You ever been confronted by a strung out dope head needing your cash for the man?

Make that an ARMED strung out dope head!

[gadwall]

binky,i am a member of a forum of uk wildfowlers and they certainly don't hold your views of guns and personal protection. most of them have more guns than i can afford. i just have one type of gun they can't have in their home, Pistols. we belive in the right to defend our selves and our families. i hope you never have to face the situation where you are confronted a criminal with a weapon. I don't feel your whole country shares your view of guns. in fact at one time it was required of all free britians to own firearms. our goverment works because we have the power to change it by whatever means necessary.
Plus how do know people in those countries woudn't carry guns if they could.

[Highwayman]

The good news from England is that after years of prosecuting crime victims for taking actions in their own self-defense the British are changing. This sounds like their version of “Make My Day”.

Home owners and “have-a go-heroes” have for the first time been given the legal right to defend themselves against burglars and muggers free from fear of prosecution.

Have-a-go heroes get legal right to defend themselves - Telegraph

[Binky Bainbridge]

My, what a response from all you gun-lovers!

Allow me to take them one at a time:

My previous posting:

(1) First of all, not one of you has yet explained to me why the rest of the civilised world does not share your views about their citizens carrying/having guns - it seems that only Americans are obsessed with the need to have them. Is the US more fearful, more obsessive, more paranoid than the rest of us?

(2) If you live in a free open democratic society why can't you trust your own government - again, not one of you has adequately explained this mistrust, yet many of you support this same government fighting its war to export your kind of "democracy" to other countries. Odd!

Highwayman
I see everything is clam and serine over there with your civilized view on weapons.

Of course its not as well you know but we don't all go round carrying guns to protect ourselves, nor do people in most other civilised countries - perhaps you can name me one that does, apart from the US.

You keep harping back continually to your rights under the constitution - it's now 2008, times have changed! - I still have the right to keep a longbow in my house and every male over the age of 14 yrs in my house should by law spend 2 hrs a day practising, in case the French attack us!
We've moved on from those days, perhaps you should too?

An aside - I don't know if it applies in the US, but sticking your two first fingers up to someone in a V-sign is considered very rude - where did it come from? Our eternal enemies, the French feared the English archers with their longbows and if they caught them they would cut off their first two fingers so that they couldn't use their longbows any longer. In battle, the English would taunt the French by holding up their two gingers in a V-sign!

Incidentally, Blackstone is the man that said "that the King can do no wrong is a necessary and fundamental principle of the English Constitution."
If we substituted "President" for "King" would you be happy?

KONQ RADIO
We trust them better knowing that they know their countrymen are armed.

Now that definitely sounds like paranoia to me!
They're your government for heaven's sake that hold a democratic mandate from the people under your beloved Constitution.

Gadwall
I don't feel your whole country shares your view of guns. in fact at one time it was required of all free britians to own firearms. our goverment works because we have the power to change it by whatever means necessary.

I can assure you that you're wrong about the views of the British people when it comes to guns. There were guns in Northern Ireland for many years and they caused so much death and devastation for all concerned. The key to success there was "decommissioning" the guns - ironic, eh?

Highwayman
Quote:
Home owners and “have-a go-heroes” have for the first time been given the legal right to defend themselves against burglars and muggers free from fear of prosecution.

Yes people can defend themselves but it must "not be excessive or disproportionate" - if someone shoots an unarmed burglar in their home they could be charged with murder.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by Binky Bainbridge

....Of course its not as well you know but we don't all go round carrying guns to protect ourselves, nor do people in most other civilised countries - perhaps you can name me one that does, apart from the US.

Israel. About 10% of Jewish adults have concealed carry permits. That’s about ten times higher rate than here.

You keep harping back continually to your rights under the constitution - it's now 2008, times have changed! - I still have the right to keep a longbow in my house and every male over the age of 14 yrs in my house should by law spend 2 hrs a day practising, in case the French attack us!
We've moved on from those days, perhaps you should too?

Nobody worries about the French attacking anything.

Yes people can defend themselves but it must "not be excessive or disproportionate" - if someone shoots an unarmed burglar in their home they could be charged with murder.

Excessive or disproportionate? So if the intruder has only a small caliber pistol and you have 12 gauge shotgun with slugs you are excessive? If you grab a 12 inch knife from the kitchen and the intruder only has a 6 inch knife you must scurry back to the kitchen to look for a shorter knife so you won’t be disproportionate?

Binky, there’s a reason why break-ins while folks are home occur at a much higher rate over there than over here. It’s safer for criminals over there.

[gadwall]

binky you flat IGNORED the first part of my post. not every britisher feels about guns the way you do. there are some conservative brits over there.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by gadwall

binky you flat IGNORED the first part of my post. not every britisher feels about guns the way you do. there are some conservative brits over there.

He’s ignored more than just part of your post Gadwall. Several of us have put in our two cents worth only to be brushed off as obsessive or paranoid.