Immigration Reform Act

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by Army_of_One

...A minimum wage increase hurts YOU Bubba because you will pay more for everything from your cherry limeade and the sonic to a gallon of milk at Dillons. Also a lot of union contracts are negotiated to be a certain amount above minimum wage...if that goes up then the union people reno for a raise...

It may hurt me a very little bit in the short run, but if that $2/hr increase helps get people off of food stamps, WIC, etc. Then in the long run we will all save money.

I wish my union was like the one you describe! In reality, I think you will find very few unions that are that way.

[K C Muffin]

Folks deserve enough money to live on........... five bucks ain't it. Not everyone can go to school - they work 3 and 4 partime jobs to make due -

We agree on most everything but this.....folks don't deserve enough money to live on - that's a Democrat's thought process. I firmly believe that everyone should work for a living. If higher education isn't on their radar, then they'd better find something else. I am not going to pay somebody on my team minimum wage just because they need the money to live. I'm going to pay minimum wage or something much higher because they do the job well. Nobody 'deserves' anything just by birth.

[lurker]

Increasing the minimum wage also creates the incentive to automate laborious tasks.

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by K C Muffin

Folks deserve enough money to live on........... five bucks ain't it. Not everyone can go to school - they work 3 and 4 partime jobs to make due -

We agree on most everything but this.....folks don't deserve enough money to live on - that's a Democrat's thought process. I firmly believe that everyone should work for a living. If higher education isn't on their radar, then they'd better find something else. I am not going to pay somebody on my team minimum wage just because they need the money to live. I'm going to pay minimum wage or something much higher because they do the job well. Nobody 'deserves' anything just by birth.

I think you are way off what we are trying to tell you. They don't deserve money for nothing. There are plenty of hard workers, working full time, at minimum wage jobs because they are academically challenged. Not everyone can be brainiacs that continue through school beyond high school. If they were there would be no waiters, waitresses, carhops, McDonalds workers, etc.

Take for example, some of the Arrowhead West workers, some of them can learn to do a job very well and work very hard. Some employers would love to pay them $5/hr. to take advantage of their hard work and lack of knowledge that hard work and a job well done deserves more pay. Meanwhile, we the taxpayers pay their government assistance to help them make ends meet so that they can live. Increasing their minimum wage to $7.25 means that they can pay their own way more with less government assistance that we pay for.

[K C Muffin]

I don't disagree with you, Bubba. Those people work hard and do the very best they can. But the fact still remains that there is a law that tells the employer how much they must pay. That's ridiculous. It doesn't give the small employer any say so in the matter. Look. I may want to hire somebody really badly, but they can't pull as much of a load as the rest for one reason or other. But I can't offer them a job that pays what they're really worth to me. So I don't offer them a job at all. I'm not saying some of these people aren't good people and shouldn't be given a chance, I'm saying that simple economics are going to make me refuse to hire them.

Increasing their minimum wage to $7.25 means that they can pay their own way more with less government assistance that we pay for.

So instead of government assistance that we pay for with our taxes, we put the burden on business owners, who will raise their prices to make up the difference. What I'm telling you is that I want a choice. I want people to see two jobs and two pay scales and make up their mind where they want to work. I think the system will right itself given half a chance.

[Highwayman]

A bit of history from 1923.....

NEW YORK — Another aspect of the whole wage question came up in the announcement of a decision by the Supreme Court, which laid down the principle that minimum wage laws are unconstitutional, the decision being made by five to three. The majority decision was given in the case of a law passed by Congress to safeguard women and children workers in the District of Columbia. The decision held that the law was an interference with contracts between employers and employés and violated the Fifth Amendment to the Constitution.

1923: Minimum Wage : IN OUR PAGES: 100, 75 AND 50 YEARS AGO

[Bubba]

Originally Posted by K C Muffin

I don't disagree with you, Bubba. Those people work hard and do the very best they can. But the fact still remains that there is a law that tells the employer how much they must pay. That's ridiculous. It doesn't give the small employer any say so in the matter. Look. I may want to hire somebody really badly, but they can't pull as much of a load as the rest for one reason or other. But I can't offer them a job that pays what they're really worth to me. So I don't offer them a job at all. I'm not saying some of these people aren't good people and shouldn't be given a chance, I'm saying that simple economics are going to make me refuse to hire them.

Increasing their minimum wage to $7.25 means that they can pay their own way more with less government assistance that we pay for.

So instead of government assistance that we pay for with our taxes, we put the burden on business owners, who will raise their prices to make up the difference. What I'm telling you is that I want a choice. I want people to see two jobs and two pay scales and make up their mind where they want to work. I think the system will right itself given half a chance.

So, then using your scenario, if you didn't get paid so much, my insurance would be cheaper. I feel insurance is extremely high, but I am forced to have it by the mortgage holder of my home loan and by the state of Kansas telling me that by law I have to carry insurance on my car. Why don't you tell your insurance company that they should make across the board pay cuts in all positions so that insurance rates can be lowered.

[Detector]

I suppose minimum wage keeps employers from taking advantage of employees, although I've always felt if you didn't like the pay just move on, but I also feel it helps to create our freeloader society.

It has always been my experience if you work hard your employer values you and will take care of an employee they want to keep. Being forced to pay an employee enough to "get by" simply creates more dependent on the system people. Where is the incentive to do a good job?

In another thread we complain because "Made In America" no longer means quality but cheap, yet here we defend the Americans right to do crappy work and be guaranteed a job with decent pay. A reward for crappy work. Not only that but we make sure you can't be fired just because you do crappy work.

Today the label "Made In America" simply means there is a really good chance it wasn't made by an American

And yet we're surprised that millions of illegals flock across the boarder for jobs were you are rewarded for crappy work?

[TexKan]

I'm for an increasse in mimimun wage - end of story. It's the right thing to do. Folks do derserve a liviable wage for the work they do. It's not a right by birth thing its just the right thing to do. It doesn't matter where you come from - no one should be exploited so a corporation can make a bigger proffit off the hard work of those that do the work.

I have to tell ya tho - I wouldn't have had some of the jobs I had if employers hadn't been willing to take a risk that I could do the job. Nurses aren't the highest paid folks around ya know but I can't imagine my life on minimum wage or waitstaff pay.

I think when they raise the wage over 2 years it's gonna lower the amount of minwage earners on assistance overall - cause it will topple them over the poverty limits AND will make way for new folks to be on the rolls which will go hand in hand with the new immigration reform. The folks in the fields will be the ones reapin the benefit IF they get thier paperwork in order. Now this may be way outta line thinkin for some and it's just a passing thought for me (like most my thought are! LOL)

I do think more will come off the assistance programs with an increase cause I know there are plenty that barely fly under the radar now with the assistance programs.

[Bubba]

You may find it hard to believe Texie, but I agree with you and for most of the same reasons.