On the Second Amendment, Don’t Believe Obama

[Justoo]

In this case you got spanked for your blindness. Highwayman was kind enough to provide an historical reference that is recognized by everyone except you and a few Iranian leaders.
If the Jews were as well armed as many Americans are today, do you suppose the would have been so easily led to slaughter?

There is a link whether you choose to open your eyes and mind, or not.

[agnostic]

...

Of course. The story applies so well to today's standards.

And I also suppose if the Greeks had machine guns and sniper rifles they'd have held off the Persians.

I'm sorry. I guess I just don't see the link.

I mean no where that I can see does this say or even get close to indicate:
If only the Germans hadn't have banned guns, the Jews would have had them to fight back with. And again, this isn't an issue of gun control. It's a matter of crazy *******s committing genocide.

Gee, what if the Jews had nukes. They could have fought off the Germans.
An attempt to link American gun laws to this is just as ridiculous.

[agnostic]

Also,

The argument that we have a right to bear arms to protect ourselves from our own government is ludicrous.

I'd love to see four hillbillies with rifles stand a chance against one trained soldier. YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM GOVERNMENT TYRANNY. If the government so chooses, the government SHALL squash you. Get over it!

Had the jews have had guns they would have still been mercilessly massacred. IT WASN'T THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE GUNS, IT'S THAT THE GERMANS WERE GOING TO KILL THEM ANYWAYS.

NO LINK

[KONQ RADIO]

Lawrencespeak.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by agnostic

NO LINK

I was preparing some polite replies to several of your earlier questions until I saw this. This subject is much deeper that can be discussed in a few sound bites. Since you have demonstrated that you intend to have a closed mind I won’t bother.

[agnostic]

I don't have a closed mind. I would love to hear your responses.

I am not aiming to be impolite; I am aiming to be frank.

[gadwall]

them four hillbillies would take out that soldier in a heartbeat. what do you think we won our independence with. the second amendment is all about preventing our goverment from become tyrannical and the ability to defend ones self. it must of been thought of as being very important as it is our SECOND amendment.
no ofence to our fighting forces, ijust know how hillbillies fight i are one.

[Highwayman]

Originally Posted by agnostic

I don't have a closed mind. I would love to hear your responses.

I am not aiming to be impolite; I am aiming to be frank.

OK, but I'm going to include links. The use of links in an Internet post is similar to footnote in a research paper. It identifies the writer’s source and allows the reader to examine that source in greater detail. No one is forcing you to click on them.

Originally Posted by agnostic

Without sarcasm, really a touching story HWY.

But, really, what's gun control have to do with that?

We can find examples of peoples being disarmed prior to being enslaved or slaughtered going back over 2000 years when common arms were swords and shields. Nazi Germany as an example is easier because it is more recent well documented.

I generally refer to the folks at JPFO for accounts because they have compiled a more in depth account centered on the gun issue. I’ll copy a few passages and provide a link for those that want to read further.

In the 1920's, Weimar Germany instituted gun registration and restrictions in the name of public safety. This policy was largely ignored by Nazi and Communist gangs acting in the same way as criminal gangs who ignore "gun control" act here. Innocent citizens saw their gun rights increasingly restricted and their safety imperiled by the state. In the 1930's, Hitler outlawed ownership of guns by Jews who were stripped of most of their other civil rights as well.

If the Jews of Europe maintained possession of guns there would not have likely been a Holocaust, at least not to the extent it occurred. Shalom Yoran, author of "The Defiant" describes how he and some fellow Jews fled to the forests during the Nazi occupation of Poland where they were able to attack and kill Nazi's guerilla style and free people on the way to the camps. The two things Yoran and his heroic fellows couldn't get enough of were food and guns. The story of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising was a story of Jews with guns.

Aaron Zelman, director of Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership (JPFO) points out that every Holocaust this century, starting with Armenia and up to Ruanda, occurred after the population targeted for extinction was disarmed. Yet today's "liberal" Jews like Chiel and groups like the Anti Defamation League(ADL), shun commentary concerning the philosophy of disarmament and it's antecedents in Nazism. We must not forget the Communist/Socialist experiments and their disarmed populations. According to the newly released "Black Book of Communism", the Soviets liquidated upwards of 30 million of their own population, the Red Chinese up to 60 million. Guns could only be found in the hands of the state, acting to "create a better place for all" to quote Chiel.

Jews and Guns, by Chuck Morse

Originally Posted by agnostic

Also, we have to look at this practically. If we really "banned" guns (I don't think it'd ever happen) it really wouldn't keep them out of the hands of the bad guys that REALLY want them. They're GOING to get them. We all know this.

But why make it easy on them? Why not make extremely strict background checks and longer wait periods. No reason to just hand criminals easy access to handguns and assault rifles.

We need to find some middle ground here. While guns suck, they're not ever, ever going to completely go away. Just like sex, drugs, and rock n roll. So let's find the best solution for those who responsibly own weapons and keeping them out of the hands of violent offenders.

Outlawing drugs worked really well didn't it.

Originally Posted by agnostic

Do people actually read posts or do they just spank or thank based on whose side they traditionally take?

I read them and as you can see I spank very sparingly.

Originally Posted by agnostic

...

Of course. The story applies so well to today's standards.

And I also suppose if the Greeks had machine guns and sniper rifles they'd have held off the Persians.

About the Greeks and Persians. While the Spartans were outnumbered and lost the battle of Thermoplae, their refusal to lay down their arms and surrender inflicted serious damage and delays on the Persian army. The delay gave time to evacuate Athens and provide a moral victory to the Greeks who went on to win their freedom. Had that small group gave up their weapons the war may have been lost. Μολὼν λαβέ

Originally Posted by agnostic

I'm sorry. I guess I just don't see the link.

I mean no where that I can see does this say or even get close to indicate:
If only the Germans hadn't have banned guns, the Jews would have had them to fight back with. And again, this isn't an issue of gun control. It's a matter of crazy *******s committing genocide.

Gee, what if the Jews had nukes. They could have fought off the Germans.
An attempt to link American gun laws to this is just as ridiculous.

This one really deserves a full read to do it justice.

Until 1943-44, the German government published its laws and regulations in the 'Reichsgesetzblatt,' roughly the equivalent of the U.S. Federal Register. Carefully shelved by law librarians, the 1938 issues of this German government publication had gathered a lot of dust. In the 'Reichsgesetzblatt' issue for the week of March 21, 1938, was the official text of the Weapons Law (March 18, 1938). It gave Hitler's Nazi party a stranglehold on the Germans, many of whom did not support the Nazis. We found that the Nazis did not invent "gun control" in Germany. The Nazis inherited gun control and then perfected it: they invented handgun control.

The Nazi Weapons Law of 1938 replaced a Law on Firearms and Ammunition of April 13, 1928. The 1928 law was enacted by a center-right, freely elected German government that wanted to curb "gang activity," violent street fights between Nazi party and Communist party thugs. All firearm owners and their firearms had to be registered. Sound familiar? "Gun control" did not save democracy in Germany. It helped to make sure that the toughest criminals, the Nazis, prevailed.

The Nazis inherited lists of firearm owners and their firearms when they 'lawfully' took over in March 1933. The Nazis used these inherited registration lists to seize privately held firearms from persons who were not "reliable." Knowing exactly who owned which firearms, the Nazis had only to revoke the annual ownership permits or decline to renew them.

In 1938, five years after taking power, the Nazis enhanced the 1928 law. The Nazi Weapons Law introduced handgun control. Firearms ownership was restricted to Nazi party members and other "reliable" people.

The 1938 Nazi law barred Jews from businesses involving firearms. On November 10. 1938 -- one day after the Nazi party terror squads (the SS) savaged thousands of Jews, synagogues and Jewish businesses throughout Germany -- new regulations under the Weapons Law specifically barred Jews from owning any weapons, even clubs or knives.

Given the parallels between the Nazi Weapons Law and the GCA '68, we concluded that the framers of the GCA '68 -- lacking any basis in American law to sharply cut back the civil rights of law abiding Americans -- drew on the Nazi Weapons Law of 1938.

Gun Control's Nazi Connection

In short, even though the government that implemented those gun laws had the best interests of the citizens at heart, a successor government didn’t and used those laws against the people.

Originally Posted by agnostic

Also,

The argument that we have a right to bear arms to protect ourselves from our own government is ludicrous.

I'd love to see four hillbillies with rifles stand a chance against one trained soldier. YOU DON'T HAVE THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS TO PROTECT YOURSELF FROM GOVERNMENT TYRANNY. If the government so chooses, the government SHALL squash you. Get over it!

Had the jews have had guns they would have still been mercilessly massacred. IT WASN'T THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE GUNS, IT'S THAT THE GERMANS WERE GOING TO KILL THEM ANYWAYS.

I’ve heard that History of Western Civilization is no longer taught in college anymore. It must be true.

[Justoo]

Seems as though that was hillbillies with squirrel guns versus the most modern armaments and finest soldiers Europe could offer. In my opinion the 2nd amendment is there in case we feel the need to lift the burden of oppression. They were aware that any government could become corrupt. They felt that future generations should have the ability to rectify the situation, just as they had.
LINK


Lance Link Secret Chimp

[agnostic]

In the 1930's, Hitler outlawed ownership of guns by Jews who were stripped of most of their other civil rights as well.

And not surprising, really. But there is a big difference here. Gun control in the US is a blanket control not aimed at a particular ethnic or racial group. It's intended to limit violent crime, not disarm a group in preparation for genocide. But thank you for clarifying that. I did not see that in the original link.

Outlawing drugs worked really well didn't it.

I don't think outlawing guns is the answer. That's my point.

I read them and as you can see I spank very sparingly.

My comment wasn't directed towards you.


I used the Greeks and Persians as a really sarcastic joust. I understand their refusal to lay down arms (difference: they were a military unit) aided their people. I was just noting that despite Hitler banning guns from Jews (can we even say that Jews were avid gun lovers? How many of them would have even had guns without the ban? I think it is a valid question if one is to assert that the Jews would have avoided genocide if they had only not had gun control laws imposed agains them) I really don't think it would have made a significant difference. Yeah, a few of them would have taken down some SS troops, but overall, and unfortunately, the Jews would still have been subject to genocide.

Again, the law that was made in 1928 has a good intent, but it is not practical which is the point I've been trying to make...

I’ve heard that History of Western Civilization is no longer taught in college anymore. It must be true.

I am well aware of the history of peoples and revolts against the government. But why can't you understand that is not possible in the US? A violent coup doesn't work when the citizen militia doesn't have access to the quantity or quality of weaponry they will face against our military.

Sure, that worked for our revolution, but if one can't distinguish now and then...one surely is "blind" and "close-minded."