On the Second Amendment, Don’t Believe Obama

[K C Muffin]

A candidate that favours gun control is a candidate with common sense and a positive moral compass.

I just have to beg to differ. The United States of America was founded on a very basic principle of freedom. Those freedoms include the freedom to arm oneself, unless the arms are used to commit crimes. Common sense....really? Is that what you think of Americans? That we're all sheep that will listen to a candidate scare the wits out of us and tell us it's for our own good? Come on, Blinky - you can surely do better. Can't you?

[Army_of_One]

Come on, Blinky - you can surely do better. Can't you?

In one word Muffy......


NO

[agnostic]

I thought Binky's answers were reasonable.

The only thing I can't really agree with him on is banning guns entirely.

It's just not practical..even if implemented it would fail horribly. Just like our war on drugs..

What really is so bad about a policymaker intent on limiting guns? Really?

Would it be so bad if you had to wait just a little longer for that rifle? For that handgun? If you need the gun right NOW, you need it for an illegitimate reason IMO.

[Value Pack]

Binky's mind on this matter is set in stone. There is no changing his mindset. NO amount of logic and facts will change his point of view. He feels this way, has been raised that way.

The point to remember is that as of today, the law of this land says that our view prevails. If Binky does not like what the standard is here, he can always go back to England where most of the crimes are done with knifes (about 57,900 people, victims of knife crime in 2006) and now more and more illegal guns.

Currently victim surveys show that crime rates for robbery, assault, burglary, and motor vehicle theft are higher in England (including Wales) than in the United States.

This from the NRA.

"Did you hear the news about England's violent crime rate on any of the mainstream news channels? Of course not. They don't want you to know that a new study shows England's violent crime rate is actually 82 percent higher than official estimates. And the reason for this is even more amazing.

Apparently in England, if you're the victim of more than 5 crimes in a year, that sixth crime isn't counted in official statistics. But when you add up all those uncounted crimes, you get a staggering look at just how crime-ridden England really is.

Burglary is 20 percent higher than officially reported. Assaults are 98 percent higher—almost twice as much as actually reported. Even robbery is 7 percent higher than the official numbers. In all, there are some two million violent crimes that go unreported because the victim has been victimized more than five times in a year.

This is a country with closed-circuit TV cameras on street corners to protect citizens. A country where civilian ownership of handguns was banned a decade ago. A country where self-defense isn't a right, just a concept. And yet the government still has to cook the books to make the crime statistics appear "reasonable."

No wonder the American media doesn't want you to hear this story. They love to pretend that England's such a peaceful place because of those gun laws and infringements on civil liberty.

Those policies haven't done anything to make England safer. It's just turned the country into a nation of victims, time and again."

The problem with England today is that the honest, law-abiding people can't shoot back. They just "grin and bear it" and only count to six.



I learned long ago never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.

[spike52]

Once again, it's the "Da dems r gunna take ma guns."
Oh brotha...

[agnostic]

welcome back

[Binky Bainbridge]

Binky's mind on this matter is set in stone. There is no changing his mindset. NO amount of logic and facts will change his point of view. He feels this way, has been raised that way.

It is true that the concept of possessing guns is never on our agenda in Britain, its an alien concept to us, one most of us cannot begin to understand in the 21st century!
I do however recognise that you can't put the toothpaste back into the tube - you've got 260+ million guns out there somewhere, and I agree with agnostic's view that its entirely unrealistic to get them all banned and withdrawn.
They should be strictly limited to the Police, Military and bona fide fully-checked out members of regulated gun clubs. Anyone else possessing a gun should receive a statutory 20 years in jail, and if using a gun in a robbery should get 30 years, and anyone using a gun in a murder should receive the death penalty - that'll soon get it sorted!

The point to remember is that as of today, the law of this land says that our view prevails. If Binky does not like what the standard is here, he can always go back to England

... but that's where I live already Value Pack! :)
The law says that a Freeman of London can walk his pigs or sheep across London Bridge on a Thursday, but we don't! Move on with the times rather than constantly harping back to the past - or is that why the old fella McCain appeals? :)

The United States of America was founded on a very basic principle of freedom. Those freedoms include the freedom to arm oneself.

That was then, this is now for heavens sake! Surely we've moved on from the War of Independence and the Wild West - or have we? It seems not to some people on here.
Rather than make you safer it seems to me that guns make it more dangerous - In 2005 firearm deaths were currently the second leading cause of injury deaths in the US. More than 270 US civilians were shot per day, resulting in 84 deaths per day.

[agnostic]

365x84=30660

Some 10 times more than those who were killed in September 11th. Our own citizens kill us more than those damn terrorists each and EVERY year. Perhaps we should re-examine how we spend our troops lives and half a trillion dollars...

[dustinwadams5]

Of course we've moved on, but we still remember those ideals which were the cornerstone of this great nation we live in. I believe history should be learned from. But the key word in gun control is control. I think a major concern is that they are exerting a tighter control on all things and the fear is that if the control keeps getting more strict then what freedom will they try to restrict next?

[Binky Bainbridge]

Of course we've moved on, but we still remember those ideals which were the cornerstone of this great nation we live in. I believe history should be learned from. But the key word in gun control is control. I think a major concern is that they are exerting a tighter control on all things and the fear is that if the control keeps getting more strict then what freedom will they try to restrict next?

Firstly, you say "we've moved on", but you haven't. There are 260+ million guns out there somewhere and if there is to be any progress on gun control then tighter regulation with severe penalties needs to be enforced - you won't get sensible control adopting a kid-glove approach to the subject.
Secondly, why this fear that controlling guns will lead to other controls? This is where it moves into paranoia ..... there is no logic to that thought process.