Calling all arm-chair treasure hunters

[Happening]

Zeb, I have read Across the Cimarron about 3 times. It is a great book. George Bolds moves to DC, hung out with all the famous people. Moved to Cimarron, then Ingalls. Was wounded in the Cimarron/Ingalls County Seat Battle. If you are from DC, Cimarron, or Ingalls, he talks about all the Mastersons, Luke Short, and all the famous guys. I would highly recommend it to anyone.

ps
thanks for the coordinates. next time I am home, and it is calm, I will have to fly over and take a look. Thanks again.

[Zeb]

figures, I was guessing. You are correct, I remember the ingalls incident from excepts. i must have been thinking a different book with cimarron in the title, but the point I was trying to make still holds I think.

[Mike B.]

Originally Posted by Detector

I've heard it several ways. It depends on if it was one day after the Cimarron crossing or one day after crossing the Cimarron. The Crossing of the Arkansas, near present day Cimarron, was called the Cimarron Crossing. I would guess a crossing of the Cimarron River might also be called the Cimarron crossing...

Detector,

I think Wright implied that after crossing the Cimarron (river) the wagons traveled one day...then they were attacked. I think that one days travel was approx 20 miles. That would be close to the area that Wright speaks about (4 miles west of Dodge City) in his book. Back then Dodge City did not extend as far west as it does now. (obviously). I drove four miles west of downtown Dodge and I suspect the attack may have happened within 1/2-1 mile of that location. Just my thoughts.

Putting myself in his shoes. If I were Martinez and had survived an Indian attack I think I would have headed east (towards civilization) and south (for protection) towards the river and Mexico. I doubt that he carried the silver across the river on his way back to Mexico. It would be to heavy. I think he buried it north of the river, before crossing. I also think that maybe he made several trips back to the remains of the wagon train to carry away more bags of the silver. If that is true, I don't think he would want to carry it too far, in fear that the Indians may return. I suspect he may have carried the bags just a few hundred yards before digging his hiding place for the silver. The story says that his son came to Dodge in a futile attempt to recover the silver and that people saw him west to town probing the ground with a steel rod. Was he on the Trail or north or south of it? I don't know that anyone actually knows. Do they? What year did his son come to Dodge? Did Dodge have a paper published when Martinez's son was poking around in the ground. Any articles wrote about it?

Well, that's my theory. Now if a person could pin-point the attack site... Has any wagon train remains ever been found west of town?

Just some ideas! The more ideas we hear the better the odds of trying to put it all together.

[Detector]

Most accounts simply say young Martinez returned in the early 70's.

I've read that the "burnt wagon parts and trenches" were still visible in the 1920's before farmers working the land destroyed the site. No location other than west of dodge is mentioned.

Most accounts say he carried the silver back to the trench he hid in and buried it, but I've been told by some old timer treasure hunters that most likely he would have carried them to the bluffs to the north. The rocky outcrops in these bluffs made a natural cache used often for hiding valuables.

The Santa Fe Trail followed a valley between the Arkansas River and the bluffs to the north. Often this valley is far too narrow to allow 110 wagons to make a circle. One days travel from the Cimarron Crossing would have been a normal camp site for most travelers. It also would have been smack bad where Fort Atkinson/Fort Mann was located.

It just surprises me that no mention of the old fort(s) or their remains are in any of the accounts. Even Wright mentioned the old remains but never mentioned them in the Martinez account.

I've searched the most likely spot for years and have a lot of wagon parts but since its a well known stopping point as well as the location of at least one old fort they may have nothing to do with the Martinez group.

Happening if you can get your hands on a camera and inferred film for your flyby you might just see what others have missed. On a sunny day radiation is absorbed by the ground and buried objects. The silver would retain the radiation longer than the ground so if you take pictures on a cool night any buried objects should show up as a hot spot.

[Happening]

Where does a guy get infered film at? I plan on making it back to that area in a few weeks, so if it is nice I will see what I can do.

ps
I am loving the stories on this thread.

[Mike B.]

Originally Posted by Detector

Most accounts say he carried the silver back to the trench he hid in and buried it, but I've been told by some old timer treasure hunters that most likely he would have carried them to the bluffs to the north. The rocky outcrops in these bluffs made a natural cache used often for hiding valuables.

Detector,

The account given above (I admit) makes more sense than what I have been thinking about the direction he may have headed with the silver.

Maybe this winter when alot of the grass is gone we could get permission from land owners and head out. I think if we had 10-15 guys with our detectors we could cover alot of ground.

Another idea would be to build or find a detector like the one the guy near Haviland and Greensberg uses to locate metoriters.

[Mike B.]

Originally Posted by Mike B.

Detector,

I think Wright implied that after crossing the Cimarron (river) the wagons traveled one day...then they were attacked. I think that one days travel was approx 20 miles. That would be close to the area that Wright speaks about (4 miles west of Dodge City) in his book...

I missed that one, I should have stated...after crossing the Arkansas river at the cimarron (crossing) the wagons...

Sorry about the cornfusion.

[The Drifter]

Fort Atkinson Ford County Kansas

September 22 1853, the troops left fort atkinson knocking down the sod structures. I realize the story says martinez came in the summer of 1853, perhaps he came a little later. Long shot.

[The Drifter]

according to Wright the wagon train LEFT mexico in the summer of 1853

[Mike B.]

Originally Posted by The Drifter

according to Wright the wagon train LEFT mexico in the summer of 1853

That may mean that the wagons were attacked after Fort Atkinson was abandoned. If they left late summer, it would take some time to travel this far. 125 wagons is a pretty good size group of wagons, livestock and people. Maybe they moved pretty slow?

BTW, the only place the sft crossed the cimarron river was in OKLA. just north and a bit east of Boise City.